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I was expecting that. Since joining the Navy and after many efforts and accomplishments to do good, I have great pride in myself and will NOT give it up. I had no self-esteen (pride) prior to that.

You really think the creator of the universe and all it entails wants you to grovel on your knees? I don't believe the creator is that petty. Also, I try my best to do good. If that's not enough for the great vengeful god in the sky, oh well.

I know this thread has mostly expired but in re-reading it last night I couldn't help but not only pray for A Navy Vet, but dwell on what his words expressed that no doubt many others probably think as well. Rather than reply in a private freepmail I am compelled to respond openly.

Navy Vet, I first of all salute your service - my husband is also a Navy vet (he served aboard the aircraft carrier Independence in the Mediterranean during the Viet Nam war) and my Dad was a lifer Air Force fighter pilot and instructor. I know firsthand the pride that comes from giving one's life to serve their country with honor. That kind of pride is well deserved and admirable - it spurs us to excellence in everything we do. But that's not the kind of pride the Bible tells us God "hates".

The Creator and Sustainer of all that is, was or ever will be doesn't want us to "grovel". He doesn't want our humiliation, He wants our humility and those are vastly different terms. To be humble before the Almighty is to recognize that He alone deserves all the glory and no one else because:

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. (Colossians 1:16,17)

When the Apostle Paul wrote,

It is written: “As surely as I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow before Me; every tongue will confess to God.” (Romans 14:11)

He was quoting the Old Testament Prophet Isaiah who was inspired by God to write,

Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. By Myself I have sworn; truth has gone out from My mouth, a word that will not be revoked: Every knee will bow before Me, every tongue will swear allegiance. (Isaiah 45:22,23)

Paul later wrote in his epistle to the Philippians, that it was Jesus Christ who:

God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name above all names, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11)

Someone once said to me that he thought God was being pretty boastful bragging about getting all the glory, but the way I see it, He's being HONEST about it. God rightfully does deserve all the glory, honor and praise because without Him nothing would exist. We wouldn't be here, nothing would.

So, again, God doesn't want anyone to grovel before Him or humiliate himself. He wants us to be honest and humbly admit that He is Lord and God and without Him we could do nothing. Bending the knee is showing reverence and respect. It is admitting He is God and we are not. The Bible says, "The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.". Fear is another word for reverence. It's just being honest. The wonderful news is that God loves us and wants us to come to Him of our own free will. Jesus said,

Come to Me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. (Matthew 11:28,29)

Please forgive me for "preaching" but I just had to speak what's been on my heart. God bless you as you seek to know the truth. "Agnostic" means without knowledge. It needn't be a permanent condition.

Excellent post boatbums!

I’m reminded of a few verses where The Lord is actually attempting to nudge us sinners back to Him - to turn to Him.

Isaiah 1:18
“Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the LORD, “Though your sins are like scarlet, They shall be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They shall be as wool.

Ezekiel 18:27
But if a wicked man turns from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he will save his life.

Isaiah 43:25
I, yes I, am He who blots out your transgressions for My own sake and remembers your sins no more.

Isaiah 55:7
Let the wicked man forsake his own way and the unrighteous man his own thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that He may have compassion, and to our God, for He will freely pardon.

The Lord simply wants us to humble ourselves before Him. He knows more about us than we know about ourselves.
What could be better than the mercy of an Abba Father?