We Can See It Coming

RR ^ | 2/14/21 | Daymond Duck

[Iscool]

The Restrainer of the Antichrist is not the Holy Spirit:
Tertullian (2nd-3rd Century)

What makes you think Tertullian would be more or as qualified as any modern bible believer to prophesy what the bible holds???

Rome was not even the head of the one, true church when Tertullian and Cyril made their predictions...How could the Roman State possibly hinder the man of sin showing up and being revealed???

[Cronos]

Some try to draft St. Jerome into the premillennialist camp. Yet he clearly taught that “the Holy City denote[s] the present world” (REV, 65).

Furthermore Jerome talks of when the Roman empire will be destroyed. And it was destroyed in 1453 AD by the ottomans.

And why did you excerpt it and leave out

“Then an insignificant eleventh king will arise, who will overcome three of the ten kings, that is, the king of Egypt, the king of [North] Africa, and the king of Ethiopia, as we shall show more clearly in our later discussion. Then after they have been slain, the seven other kings also will bow their necks to the victor.”

Ethiopia was never part of the Roman empire. And there was never a king of north Africa.

[Cronos]

Paul states that in his lifetime, the Faith of the Church in Rome “is proclaimed in all the world” (Rom. 1:8). In Colossians 1:5–6, he writes, “You have heard … the gospel … as indeed in the whole world it is bearing fruit and growing.” There was certainly no doubt in St. Paul’s mind, while writing under inspiration, that the gospel had gone out into the whole world.

Clement of Rome was bishop when the signs of the Olivet Discourse were being fulfilled (67–73 A.D.). He wrote that Peter and Paul had been martyred, but not before they “taught righteousness to the whole world, and [they came] to the extreme limit of the west” (FEC).

Since both Peter and Paul were martyred before the fall of Jerusalem, Clement must have believed the seventh sign was fulfilled before the fall of Jerusalem.

Justin Martyr, born around the turn of the first century, wrote that “from Jerusalem there went out into the world, men, twelve in number, and these illiterate, of no ability in speaking: but by the power of God they proclaimed to every race of men that they were sent by Christ to teach to all the word of God” (FA, XXXIX).

Eusebius even connected the seventh sign to Jerusalem’s desolation: “The teaching of the new covenant was borne to all nations, and at once the Romans besieged Jerusalem and destroyed it and the Temple” (POG, I:VI). Eusebius reiterated the relationship Jesus enunciated. He said that the gospel would be preached, “and then the end will come” (Matt. 24:14).

Bede adds that the Apostles determined to spend their lives fulfilling sign 7: “All the Apostles, long before the destruction of the province of Judea, were dispersed to preach the gospel over the whole world” (cited in GCC). They did this specifically to remove any obstacle to the fulfillment of Christ’s prophecy.

[Cronos]

The Olivet Discourse uses the word oikoumene at this point, which specifically means the civilized world, delineated at the time by the boundaries of the Roman Empire. In other words, the gospel would be preached throughout the entire empire. There is another word for world that designates the entire earth, kosmos.

Kosmos appears later in this same chapter: “from the beginning of the world until now” (Matt. 24:21). Since both words are used in the same passage, it seems quite certain that the Apostles were fully cognizant of these two concepts. Therefore, we can be confident that Jesus taught His disciples that the “end” of the Temple would follow the preaching of the gospel throughout the civilized world, the Roman Empire.

[MHGinTN]

You err by conflating the Olivet Discourse with the Upper Room Discourse. The first was given to Jewish men concerning Israel and of course the Rapture is not found in that Discourse. The Upper Room Discourse was given to Jewish men who were to be the foundation stones of the Church, Body of Christ Believers. The Olivet Discourse finds Jesus answering specific questions from Jewish men who were pointing out the splendor of the Temple and asked about the destruction of the Temple AND also the end of the age, the Age of Israel and the foretold Kingdom Age/

A clue that could help you is the phrase 'but the end is not yet' which hallmarks The Olivet Discourse to the Jews, to Israel.

[Cronos]

Dear MHG, I meant specifically the "Olivet discourse" - as I wrote

Matthew 24:14 14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole [a]world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The Olivet Discourse uses the word oikoumene at this point, which specifically means the civilized world, delineated at the time by the boundaries of the Roman Empire. In other words, the gospel would be preached throughout the entire empire.

There is another word for world that designates the entire earth, kosmos.

Kosmos appears later in this same chapter: “from the beginning of the world until now” (Matt. 24:21).

Since both words are used in the same passage, it seems quite certain that the Apostles were fully cognizant of these two concepts. Therefore, we can be confident that Jesus taught His disciples that the “end” of the Temple would follow the preaching of the gospel throughout the civilized world, the Roman Empire.

This is confirmed in Paul's letters

Rom 1:8 8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ [a]for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the world. -- oikoumene

and Colossians 1:5–6,For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world;

See -- the Gospel was already preached in the entire "Romano-Greek civilized world" by 54 AD when Colossians was written

[MHGinTN]

As asked above, your shoehorn is not strong enough to fulfill the prophecies, so no sale, Preterist.

[Philsworld]

Your demand to see the restrainer named in print for your satisfaction is foolishness. The Trinity is not named in scripture but is described all across the Word of God.

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Paul mentions the Holy Spirit multiple times in his writings throughout the bible, BUT NOT REGARDING THE RESTRAINER. Why not? Because the restrainer of the Antichrist was Pagan Rome ruled by the Caesars. If Paul put that in print the full force of Rome would have come down even harder on Christianity.

If the restrainer of the Antichrist was the Holy Spirit, Paul would have clearly told us. Did he just forget to write Holy Spirit when he did it multiple other times with other subjects? Ridiculous.

[Philsworld]

Rome was not even the head of the one, true church when Tertullian and Cyril made their predictions...How could the Roman State possibly hinder the man of sin showing up and being revealed???

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Paul distinctly tells us that he knew, and that the Thessalonians knew, what that hindrance was, and that it was then in existence. The early Church, through the writings of the Fathers, tells us what it knew upon the subject, and with remarkable unanimity affirms that this “let,” or hindrance, was the Roman empire as governed by the Caesars; that while the Caesars held imperial power, it was impossible for the predicted antichrist to arise, and that on the fall of the Caesars he would arise. Here we have a point on which Paul affirms the existence of knowledge in the Christian Church. The early Church knew, he says, what this hindrance was. The early Church tells us what it did know upon the subject, and no one in these days can be in a position to contradict its testimony as to what Paul had, by word of mouth only, told the Thessalonians. It is a point on which ancient tradition alone can have any authority. Modern speculation is positively impertinent on such a subject.1

1 As to the “ let” or hindrance to the manifestation of the “man of sin “ referred to in 2 Thess. ii., Mr. Elliott says: “We have the consenting testimony of the early Fathers, from Ireneus, the disciple of the disciple of St. John, down to Chrysostom and Jerome, to the effect that it was understood to be the imperial power ruling and residing at Rome.” — “ Horae Apocalyptica;,” vol. iii., p. 92.

Romanism and the reformation: from the standpoint of prophecy, by Henry Grattan Guinness, Hodder and Stoughton, 1887, pg. 194.

[Philsworld]

Since you expect to be here when the man of sin shows up, how do you figure you will avoid being duped as to who he is???

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He’s been here for 1500 years give or take. He took over when Western Pagan Rome went bust. You are the one being duped.

[Philsworld]

What makes you think Tertullian would be more or as qualified as any modern bible believer to prophesy what the bible holds???

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He and other early church fathers were closer to the apostles for one thing.

[Philsworld]

Can you tell me why every Protestant reformer identified the Antichrist power as the Catholic church/Pope? Please tell me why you are smarter than they were.

They knew who the restrainer was and they understood bible prophecy.

Every one of them was wrong? No. Try again Iscool.

http://www.redeemerfw.org/resources/reformers_antichrist.pdf

[Cronos]

Not a shoe-horn - the prophecies are clearly about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD

Daniel talks of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD during the 4th beast, the 4th kingdom, a kingdom of mixed iron and clay - the Roman Empire. And it being smashed by the unhewn rock that is Jesus Christ. This rock becomes the mountain, Christianity

Jesus in the Olivet discourse is clearly - and repeatedly He says “THIS generation will see this happening”

Paul is also clear that he talks about the generation he is writing to and Paul is also clear that the gospel was taken to the ends of the civilized world ALREADY by 54 AD

Revelation makes it clear that it talks about the destruction of Jerusalem —
Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

[Philsworld]

You don’t believe the people of God, with a bible in their hands would recognize the man of sin when he shows up???

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Don’t these guys qualify?

http://www.redeemerfw.org/resources/reformers_antichrist.pdf

[Philsworld]

It is not Christians who would be deceived...

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I have a newsflash for you. If you do not have a saving faith in Jesus Christ, you are already lost. Satan doesn’t care one iota about the lost. He is at war with believers. Maybe you haven’t heard?

“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” Revelation 12:17

Many Christians will be deceived. Count on it.

[Philsworld]

He’s going to pretend to be God...

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Like claiming to be able to change times and laws, like the Catholic Church claims? (no one other than God can change laws that He made)

Like claiming to be able to forgive sins, like the Catholic church claims? (no one can forgive sins other than God)

You have got to be kidding me. You must either be lying to yourself or sincerely know NOTHING about what the Catholic church claims.

Do I need to list many of the blasphemous claims of the Catholic Church for you?

You are in big trouble

[Philsworld]

“The Pope is of so great dignity, and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God and the vicar of God.” Ferraris Ecclesiastical dictionary

“All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” On the Authority of the Councils, book 2, chapter 17

“All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that he is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” (Robert Bellarmine, Disputationes de Controversiis, Tom. 2, AControversia Prima, Book 2 (ADe Conciliorum Auctoritate [On the Authority of Councils]), chap. 17 (1628 ed., Vol. 1, p. 266), translated

“And God himself is obliged to abide by the judgment of his priest and either not to pardon or to pardon, according as they refuse to give absolution, provided the penitent is capable of it.” Liguori, Duties and Dignities of the Priest, p.27

“This is our last lesson to you: receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God’s commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church; the strong and effective instrument of salvation is none other than the Roman Pontificate.” Pope Leo XIII, Allocution for the 25th anniversary of his election, February 20, 1903; Papal Teachings: The Church, Benedictine Monks of Solesmes, St. Paul Editions, Boston, 1962, par. 653

“The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth…by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth.” Quoted in the New York Catechism

I could go on and on and on..... maybe I will.

[Philsworld]

“Not the Creator of Universe, in Genesis 2:1-3,-but the Catholic Church can claim the honor of having granted man a pause to his work every seven days.” S. C. Mosna, Storia della Domenica, 1969, pp. 366-367

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This is for you and all of your Sunday keeping buddies, just to let you know to who’s authority you give allegiance.

[Philsworld]

“The Pope has the power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ. The Pope has the authority and often exercised it, to dispense with the command of Christ.” Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap. ‘The Pope can modify divine law.’ Ferraris’ Ecclesiastical Dictionary

The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the Church had changed…the Sabbath into Sunday, not by command of Christ, but by its own authority.” Canon and Tradition, p. 263

“Is not yet too late for Protestants to redeem themselves. Will they do it?… will they indeed take the written word only, the Scripture alone, as their sole authority and their sole standard? Or will they still hold the indefensible, self contradictory, and suicidal doctrine and practice of following the authority of the Catholic church and wear the SIGN of her authority? Will they keep the Sabbath of the Lord, the seventh day, according to Scripture? Or will they keep the Sunday according to the tradition of the Catholic church.” Ibid, page 31

“The Bible says remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day. The Catholic church says No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week. And lo the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic church.” American Sentinel, Father Enright, June 1893

“Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday… not from any directions noted in the Scriptures, but from the Church’s sense of its own power… People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep the Saturday holy.” Saint Catherine Catholic Church Sentinel, May 21, 1995

“The priest does not have to ask God to forgive your sins. The priest himself has the power to do so in Christ’s name. Your sins are forgiven by the priest the same as if you knelt before Jesus Christ and told them to Christ Himself.” Quoted in Lorraine Boettner, Roman Catholicism, p. 197

[Cronos]

Sabbath remains on Saturday (sobota).

Christian’s worshiped and worship the Lord on the first day of the week, Niedziela, Domenica, Dimanche.

Acts 20:7
On the first day of the week we came together to break bread

This is after John 20:19
On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jewish leaders, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”