Christians Debate The Prophetic Future Of America - Prosperity vs End Times

Prophecy News Watch ^ | 01/15/2021 | Staff

[Cronos]

Daniel tells us the length of time during which the little horn will wage war against “the law.” It will be “for a time, two times, and half a time” (7:25). These times are meant to be added together: one year, plus two years, plus half a year. This is an ancient way of saying three and a half years.

That coincides precisely with events in the first century. Jewish Zealots burned the Roman ruler’s palace, slaughtered the garrison of Roman soldiers, killed the high priest Ananias and burned his palace, and put an end to the morning and evening sacrifices for Caesar in the Temple.

In response, the Roman general Cestius marched on Jerusalem and burned much of the city. Yet his expedition against Jerusalem was a disaster for Rome, and he lost six thousand soldiers in his retreat. Caesar Nero was outraged and declared war against Jerusalem in February of 67 A.D. General Vespasian was dispatched at the head of a Roman army. This was the beginning of the Jewish-Roman War.

The “little horn” who had been making “war with the saints,” even to the point of wearing “out the saints of the Most High,” now turned his wrath on “the law” that forbade worship of him (7:21, 25). That war upon “the times and the law” lasted three and a half years. By April of 70 A.D., the son of Vespasian, General Titus, had tightened the noose of the final siege of Jerusalem.

The Roman army had even come from the north, just as Ezekiel 38 and 39 had predicted.

In August of 70 A.D., the Temple of Jerusalem fell before the Roman army of Titus. The Temple was torched and systematically dismantled, piece by piece. This destruction of the Temple was the end of 2nd temple Judaism.

Just as Daniel had predicted, Nero declared war in February of 67 A.D., and Jerusalem’s Temple fell in August of 70 A.D. Count the months. The Jewish-Roman War lasted forty-two months, precisely three and a half years. Jerusalem was to “be given into his hand for a time, two times, and half a time.”
Daniel tells us that “with the clouds of Heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before Him. And to Him was given dominion and glory and kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion which shall not pass away, and His Kingdom one that shall not be destroyed” (Dan. 7:13–14).

Daniel describes the Son of man as coming “to the Ancient of Days.” When He comes, He is “presented before Him” (7:13). The Son is traveling to the Father in Heaven for the ceremonial bestowal of His Kingdom

This prophecy does not describe the coming of the Son of man back to earth at all! Rather, this prophecy concerns the time when Jesus is recognized as the victor over sin because of the Cross. He is publicly given what is rightfully His: God’s Kingdom.

Jesus applied this prophecy to Himself before the Sanhedrin.
Here is what our Lord said at His trial: “I tell you, hereafter you will see the Son of man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of Heaven” (Matt. 26:64). Jesus told the men judging Him that they would see the coming foretold by Daniel. Since the Sanhedrin’s court was not in Heaven, but in Jerusalem, Jesus is expanding the venue of Daniel’s vision

The lifetime of the Sanhedrin overlaps with the time frame of this vision in Daniel. Daniel has been describing the little horn, which symbolizes Nero. Was there any public evidence that Jesus was the spiritual victor over the Old Covenant and its leadership during the times of Nero? Hold on to that question, because the answer is an emphatic yes. I can almost hear you gasp, “Wait just one cotton-pickin’ minute! Are you implying that we must believe that the second coming of Christ occurred in 70 A.D.?” Of course not

this coming of Daniel’s vision could not possibly be a prediction of the second coming at the final eschaton

judge. The high priest understood this threat clearly and decided that Jesus had to die. Although Christ certainly received His Kingdom no later than at His Ascension, the Sanhedrin never saw evidence of that. There was only one event that occurred during the generation of the Sanhedrin that would show them the Christ was their Judge. The public event that evidenced the coming of Christ in victory was the destruction of Jerusalem’s Temple in 70 A.D., as instigated by the little horn, Nero. It was a public judgment that clearly proved to all mankind that Jesus was the victor in Heaven over His enemies on earth. No other event created the instantaneous, worldwide publicity necessary to illustrate to the Sanhedrin that Christ was seated at the right hand of the Father. Just as God judged Egypt with the Assyrian army, Christ judged Jerusalem with the pagan Roman army in 70 ad

[Cronos]

I apologize for the lengthy post above. I needed to elaborate with cross references to Matthew etc to show that Daniel’s vision ended in the 1st century.

That is also what Jews of the first century believed, which is why you had so many wannabe Messiahs thenLight Frombork Judas The Galilean woj was executed in 4 BC but created The Zealot secret. Right to Jezus Bar Abbas (son of the father) in 33 Ad. to Simon bar kochkba (son of the star).

The 2nd temple jews KNEW the messiah and the end of days and the fulfilment of Daniel’s prophecy would happen in the first century, so the proliferation of Messiahs, all of whom, except one, were warriors.

That exception was Jesus of Nazareth

[Cronos]

Dale Moody, who you would know as an eminent Baptist theologian, wrote:

“Belief in a pre-tribulational rapture . . . contradicts all three chapters in the New Testament that mention the tribulation and the rapture together (Mark 13:24–27; Matt. 24:26–31; 2 Thess. 2:1–12).

. . . The theory is so biblically bankrupt that the usual defense is made using three passages that do not even mention a tribulation (John 14:3; 1 Thess. 4:17; 1 Cor. 15:52). These are important passages, but they have not had one word to say about a pre-tribulational rapture. . . .

Pre-tribulationism is biblically bankrupt and does not know it”

(The Word of Truth, 556–7).

[mdmathis6]

I wasn’t arguing about timing with you...just wanted your take as to when the events that Paul mentions would most likely occur.

In other words you believe that the events that Paul mentions will occur but not in a pretribulational time period. That’s all I wanted to know. And I can accept your opinion on that...there are certainly some open questions that will remain open until Christ himself reveals the answers. (But I’ll bet even you wouldn’t mind it happening earlier rather than later) So it is good to keep watch as Jesus says and to build each other up in the meantime.

[mdmathis6]

Slip of the number...but 1 Thessalonians 5:16-17 is a good verse to remember when discussing these issues.

[Cronos]

the thing is that the pretrib concept doesn’t work.

It relies on twisting what the Bible says. Jesus says that we will suffer for following Him. Also very clearly, the pre-trib concept that Noahides take of Jesus then being the ruler over Jews on earth leads to the error of a double new covenant. Some posters here even insiste that there were two churches - the Gentile and the Jewish and that Jesus is the savior only for the Jews or only for the gentiles

[mdmathis6]

I think the rapture is not a “timing” thing but an event that will occur at anytime around the last 7-10 years of the “end of this present age.” The references Christ makes of Noah being shut up into the ark and of righteous Lot being sent out of the City prior to God’s hammer fall and of Christ’s exhortations to watch and be ready as well as his question ,”Nevertheless, When the Son of man comes, will he find faith on the earth?” presage a coming time when the righteous and the dead in Christ will be taken off the Earth before the worst of the worst happens. Now it looks pretribulational but that could include the first 3.5 years that the Beast and the two witnesses have their conflicts with each other while the blessed suffer immense persecutions and martyrdoms just prior to God throwing the hammer down.

[Cronos]

The present age was the age of the 2nd temple — look at the chapters

Mark 10:30
who will not receive a hundred times more now in this present age: houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and eternal life in the age to come.

Luke 18:30
who will not receive [back] an overabundant return in this present age and eternal life in the age to come.”

Galatians 1:4
who gave himself for our sins that he might rescue us from the present evil age in accord with the will of our God and Father,

1 Timothy 6:17
Tell the rich in the present age not to be proud and not to rely on so uncertain a thing as wealth but rather on God, who richly provides us with all things for our enjoyment.

All of the above are written before the destruction of the 2nd temple —> and note Galatians “that he might rescue US from this present age” - not some group of people 2000 years later