Posted on 12/08/2020 10:38:42 AM PST by Roman_War_Criminal
End Times Ping
Great two-part series by Mark Becker and how it relates to the timeline we are currently living in.
PM me if you wish to be added/removed from the End Times Ping list.
Maranatha!
I believe Mr. Becker misunderstands the term “last days,” although I shared his concept for nearly 50 years. Please consider the following:
The Jews to whom he spoke recognized two ages (and Jews still do): the age in which they lived, the Mosaic age, and the Messiah’s age. Jews who don’t recognize Jesus as the Messiah believe they are still in the Mosaic age, and when the Messiah comes, his age will began.
Jesus respected the Jewish usage of these terms in Mt. 12.31-32 when he said:
31 Therefore I say unto you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men; but the blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world [aionios, lit., age—SGD] nor in that which is to come.
“This age” would be the Mosaic age; Jesus says that blaspheming the Holy Spirit wouldn’t be forgiven in the Mosaic age, nor in the age to come, the Messianic (or Christian) age.
Likewise, in Lk. 20.27-35, when responding to the question from the Sadducees concerning marriage in the resurrection, Jesus used this same distinction:
27 And there came to him certain of the Sadducees, they that say that there is no resurrection; 28 and they asked him, saying, Teacher, Moses wrote unto us, that if a man’s brother die, having a wife, and he be childless, his brother should take the wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. 29 There were therefore seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and died childless; 30 and the second: 31 and the third took her; and likewise the seven also left no chil-dren, and died. 32 Afterward the woman also died. 33 In the resurrection therefore whose wife of them shall she be? for the seven had her to wife. 34 And Jesus said unto them, The sons of this world [aionios, lit., age—SGD] marry, and are given in marriage: 35 but they that are accounted worthy to attain that world [aionios, lit., age—SGD], and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
In the Mosaic age, in which every character in this conversation lived, citizens of the kingdom were produced by marriage and procreation. In the case of the woman involved, she had no children after five marriages. This was of utmost seriousness in the Mosaic age, as children of the kingdom were produced solely by physical procreation. Eunuchs, for example, could produce no heirs in the kingdom, and they were regarded as inferior citizens because of this.
However, Jesus says, that won’t be the case in the Messiah’s age. Children of God will not be produced by physical procreation, but by teaching the gospel. Now, in the Messiah’s age, we know that to be the case. Christians are produced by evangelism, not procreation. Imagine the effect this teaching would have on eunuchs (such as the Ethyopian in Acts 8) or unmarried people now: they can produce citizens and heirs of God’s kingdom as well as anyone else!
The Age of Christ Has no End
We next notice that the Messianic age has no end. In the Messianic prophecy of Isa. 9.6, 7, God foretold:
6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. 7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this.
This prophecy of the Messiah also says that there will be no end to the increase of his government or of peace. The increase of the Messiah’s government takes place, again, through preaching the gospel, and it has no end.
Similarly in Lk. 1.28-33, we find the angel Gabriel appearing to Mary, saying:
28 And he came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee. 29 But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this might be. 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favor with God. 31 And behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Most High: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 and he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Again, the kingdom of the Messiah will never end. One had just as well talk about the end of eternity as the end of the Messiah’s rule. It will never end!
Hence, the Age of Christ or the Messiah’s age has no end. The Mosaic age did. The Messiah’s age has no last days, last day, nor last hour. The Mosaic age had all of those, and they are spoken of repeatedly. Thus, when these parables speak of the end of the age, they’re not speaking of the end of the Christian age, which has no end, but the end of the Mosaic age, the age in which Jesus’ audience lived. The harvest and judgment of which Jesus spoke to his countrymen would occur at the end of the Mosaic age.
Thanks for reading, and considering.
So this would be as Jesus said - the end of the Mosaic age was coming in 33 AD
FNU_LNU -- do you mind if I refer to your post in future discussions? As I understood, the end of the age was the destruction of the temple
the fascinating examples of “Last days” in the bible
Acts 2
14 [e]Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice, and proclaimed to them, “You who are Jews, indeed all of you staying in Jerusalem. Let this be known to you, and listen to my words. 15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only nine o’clock in the morning. 16 No, this is what was spoken through the prophet Joel:
17 ‘It will come to pass in the last days,’ God says,
‘that I will pour out a portion of my spirit
upon all flesh.
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
your young men shall see visions,
your old men shall dream dreams.
...
22 You who are Israelites, hear these words. Jesus the Nazorean was a man commended to you by God with mighty deeds, wonders, and signs, which God worked through him in your midst, as you yourselves know. 23 This man, delivered up by the set plan and foreknowledge of God, you killed, using lawless men to crucify him. 24 But God raised him up, releasing him from the throes of death, because it was impossible for him to be held by it.
2 Timothy - Paul charges that there will be terrifying times in the coming last days, NOT 2000 years in the future
So Paul was clear that he was living in the last days
2 Peter 3 - he was clear that these are the last days
And this is as in Matthew 24 where the destruction of Jerusalem IS the end of the age, i.e the last days
Cronos, feel free to refer to that material.
I think you’re correct to say that the end of the Mosaic age ended at the destruction of the temple. There was a period of transition between the two covenants from 33AD to 70AD. The jews who obeyed the gospel in Ac. 2 became dead to the law, Rom. 7.4-6, Gentiles were never under the law, and Jews who didn’t hear the gospel until some time after 33AD were under the law until it’s practice was destroyed when the temple was. No more temple, priesthood, genealogies, sacrifices, etc.
So, to whom was Peter speaking in your quoted text of Acts?
Thank you, that is my understanding as well what took me years to arrive at - only in mid 2019 did it all click in place (hey, I’m slow... :)
No more temple, priesthood, etc. - so the only sects of Judaism that could survive were those that didn’t utterly rely on the temple and sacrifices, meaning the Jesus movement and rabbinical Judaism.
Acts 2:14 “You who are Jews, indeed all of you staying in Jerusalem. -- Peter was speaking to Jews and to gentiles.
The chapter starts with 5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven -- out of every nation
It carries on and says they are 9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judæa, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes
There is a lot of confusion made by people who placed themselves above us by mingling Jewish promises with the heavenly gifts made to the Gentile Church. We are His body and not a part of the earthly Kingdom of Israel. There will be future Gentiles who will be subject to the Kingdom of Israel at Christ’s return to earth to rule and reign when Israel will be head of all the nations, but the Gentile Church period is over before that happens.Pardon me, but in my various discussions with people who hold to the pre-Tribulation rapture, I've not met anyone until you who believed that there are two separate covenants - one for gentiles and one for Jews
shows one that the Gentile Church is a totally different body than the Jewish Church. Much confusion appears when trying to mesh the Jewish epistles with the writings of Paul, our pattern. Peter to the Jews, Paul to the Gentiles and Paul is our pattern. The Gentile Church, saved by grace alone, was a mystery kept secret from the foundation of the world according to Paul. You will see that in the Jewish epistles, references are made to promises to Israel only and refer to an earthly kingdom. Again, we are a heavenly-oriented body as the Gentile Church and we have no promises concerning a future kingdom on earth. God will keep His promises to Israel, but they were put in abeyance with Israel’s final rejection of Christ Jesus until the Gentile Church is taken out of here before the judging of God of the earth
Is that common among all people who believe in the pre-Tribulation rapture? Or is it just some people who hold to that?
Do you, Roman_War_Criminal or you Boabtums or you Metmom also hold to this concept?
There is a lot of confusion made by people who placed themselves above us by mingling Jewish promises with the heavenly gifts made to the Gentile Church. We are His body and not a part of the earthly Kingdom of Israel. There will be future Gentiles who will be subject to the Kingdom of Israel at Christ’s return to earth to rule and reign when Israel will be head of all the nations, but the Gentile Church period is over before that happens.Pardon me, but in my various discussions with people who hold to the pre-Tribulation rapture, I've not met anyone until you who believed that there are two separate covenants - one for gentiles and one for Jews
shows one that the Gentile Church is a totally different body than the Jewish Church. Much confusion appears when trying to mesh the Jewish epistles with the writings of Paul, our pattern. Peter to the Jews, Paul to the Gentiles and Paul is our pattern. The Gentile Church, saved by grace alone, was a mystery kept secret from the foundation of the world according to Paul. You will see that in the Jewish epistles, references are made to promises to Israel only and refer to an earthly kingdom. Again, we are a heavenly-oriented body as the Gentile Church and we have no promises concerning a future kingdom on earth. God will keep His promises to Israel, but they were put in abeyance with Israel’s final rejection of Christ Jesus until the Gentile Church is taken out of here before the judging of God of the earth
Is that common among all people who believe in the pre-Tribulation rapture? Or is it just some people who hold to that?
Do you, Roman_War_Criminal or you Boabtums or you Metmom also hold to this concept?
5 Now there were devout Jews from every nation under heaven staying in Jerusalem.
https://bible.usccb.org/bible/acts/2
I never said there were two covenants. I said there was a Jewish body of believers and later, with Paul, there was teaching of grace only to the gentiles. Don’t confuse the two. I stated plainly that the gentiles never had a covenant.
See post 13 in response to Cronos.
That is, the teaching of grace ONLY to the gentiles, Cronos. Not grace to the gentiles ONLY.
I know John Hagee is big on the dual covenant theology.
I’ve never heard of Hage
I never said there were two covenants. I said there was a Jewish body of believers and later, with Paul, there was teaching of grace only to the gentiles. Don’t confuse the two. I stated plainly that the gentiles never had a covenant.and to add, the Sermon on the Mount, in your opinion, is not for Gentiles, right?
Hagee is a megachurch pastor who has written many books and is quite popular 9n some circles.
What was Jesus preaching and to whom was He preaching, Cronos?
You want to tell me that you live by the Sermon on the Mount? Seriously.
And, no, I do not live by it. The day will come in the hereafter when I am made capable to keep it perfectly.
Now what about my post 12?
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