Posted on 10/21/2020 1:56:05 PM PDT by ebb tide
ROME, October 21, 2020 (LifeSiteNews) – In perfect time to affect the U.S. presidential election, a new film will premier in North America Sunday which represents in dramatic fashion Pope Francis’ attack on President Trump as “not a Christian” for the President’s building of the border wall. In the documentary, which premiered in Rome today, Pope Francis has made his most clear statements contradicting Catholic Church teaching by calling for homosexual civil unions to be legalized. Speaking of homosexual civil unions, he said “What we have to create is a civil union law. That way they are legally covered. I stood up for that.”
The film Francesco is a fawning and dramatic treatment of Pope Francis, painting the pontiff as a liberator of humanity pushing on many of the hot-button issues dear to the Democrat left.
(Excerpt) Read more at lifesitenews.com ...
I just think this is the double edged sword of calling Catholicism “the one true church.” You’re either with the program or out the door. I know some Catholics, liberal obviously, who love this pope. I think he’s a train wreck.
Now I am convinced that Pope Francis is the anti-Christ.
These guys all said it too. Many of them were tortured and murdered for saying it.
http://www.redeemerfw.org/resources/reformers_antichrist.pdf
next thing you know someone is going to tell us 4/5 of the Vatican priests are gay. Oops, wait a second, someone already did. My bad.
I wouldn’t be surprised either.
You raise a good point. There have always been priests or bishops leaning towards heresy and schism. That’s what the Pope is supposed to prevent. For example, in the 1980s, after a flirtation with marxist “liberation theology” among some priests in Latin America, John Paul II corrected them and laid down the law. Given the fortunate collapse of the Soviet Union a few years later, the whole issue disappeared.
Where does one go when the Pope himself is equivocating or even flirting with heresy? We are in uncharted waters. I am not aware of such a situation in at least the last 150 years and probably much longer.
Homosexuality is accepted & celebrated.
Sodomite “marriage” is preformed & celebrated.
Abortion is never mentioned.
Sin is rarely mentioned; except for the “sins” of “intolerance” & “judgement”.
Divorce is fully accepted & celebrated...in every Protestant religion.
Name a Protestant religion that isn’t infested with this apostasy....
Rightly criticize the pope for this; it is unbiblical.
But let’s all stop pretending the Catholic church is alone in betrayal of truth.
Go ahead & cast stones those without sin in their church.
Without a single sin.
“You don’t really have that option as a Catholic, do you? You’d no longer be Catholic.”
I don’t really see it that way. I am still a Catholic; Frankie is not.
He has excommunicated himself Latae sententiae.
A latae sententiae penalty is one that follows ipso facto or automatically, by force of the law itself, when a law is contravened, as when a Catholic woman kills her baby.
The Catholic Church now consists of the few who still believe in the Catholic faith, and what the Church teaches.
Umm...how do you think "basic doctrine" got set in the first place? Catholics believe their Pope is Christ's representative on earth and they contend he can declare what is or is not truth through his official infallible ex cathedra pronouncements. That's how you came to hold that Mary was sinless, a perpetual virgin and assumed bodily into heaven despite there being no Biblical basis for the beliefs. Popes made them part of de fide (of the faith) and binding upon all Catholics. Pope Francis, because he is the Pope, could do the same.
Besides, its certainly not an issue Protestants have escaped. I point to the Episcopal Church as exhibit 1A.
True, but Protestants don't proclaim they have a single bishop who rules all Christendom as the Vicar of Christ. We can leave any local church or denomination in favor of those which teach the Biblical Christian faith. Roman Catholics are in a catch-22.
What do you think Jesus would want you 1 billion+ Catholics to do against this one man who slipped in and now represents you to the world? Shouldn't there be some way to admit a mistake was made and do a recall? He's been on that throne for over 7 years! What's the worst thing that can happen???
I’ve encountered many devout Catholic people here who deeply understand their own doctrine and catechism.
If the organized “church” keeps going in this direction, there will be schisms, and people will be forming their own true Churches, while the traditional one will become a hollow ghost of itself.
It seems to me that a true *Church* is composed of faithful believers. But mere organizations seem to go any way they find temporally expedient. Every longstanding one has been corrupted over and over, throughout time.
(How far is it for the Pope to go, from this pronouncement to sanctifying gay marriage? And how soon after will he make allowances for abortion?)
It seems to me that your last thought causes a conflict. You’re basically saying what you believe is the true church, but the church itself is saying the opposite. At what point do you say enough? To me it’s like an old school Democrat who finally becomes a Republican. There has to be line that could be crossed that would delineate the Rubicon.
I looked it up and it seems like a Pope CAN legally be deposed:
Can the Church Depose an Heretical Pope
The tipping point apparently is when/if the Pope, teaching as Pope, defines a doctrine of faith or morals, to be held by the universal Church.
“It seems to me that your last thought causes a conflict. You’re basically saying what you believe is the true church, but the church itself is saying the opposite.”
Not how I see it. The Church itself is the supernatural Bride of Christ, and what it says has been pretty well set out over the past 2,000 years.
Just because some commies, faggots, and commie faggots start committing heresy in no way affects the teachings of the Church.
The teachings of the Church are exactly what they were under Pope Saint Pius X. If you want to stay Catholic, stay with that.
“At what point do you say enough?”
I don’t think I understand what you mean. I have said “enough” to the heresy and faggotry; I will never say enough to Catholicism as taught under Pius X, unless, God forbid, Satan steals my soul.
“There has to be line that could be crossed that would delineate the Rubicon.”
The protestant denominations are essentially Catholicism with huge swaths of the blessings God wants us to have trimmed away and thrown back in His face.
I would never sign on to that.
“This man will be gone someday and the leadership in the Vatican will go back to it’s original mission.”
No, he is the last “pope”. Actually Benedict was/is the last real pope.
Which means you cannot depose a validly elected pope, without his consent. Meanwhile, the RCC can indeed change basic doctrine under the premise of clarifying it, and thus resulting in the divisions because of V2. As one poster using some hyperbole stated,
The last time the church imposed its judgment in an authoritative manner on "areas of legitimate disagreement," the conservative Catholics became the Sedevacantists and the Society of St. Pius X, the moderate Catholics became the conservatives, the liberal Catholics became the moderates, and the folks who were excommunicated, silenced, refused Catholic burial, etc. became the liberals. The event that brought this shift was Vatican II; conservatives then couldn't handle having to actually obey the church on matters they were uncomfortable with, so they left. ” Nathan, https://christopherblosser.wordpress.com/2005/05/16/fr-michael-orsi-on-different-levels-of-catholic-teaching (original http://www.ratzingerfanclub.com/blog/2005/05/fr-michael-orsi-on-different-levels-of.html)
In addition, required assent is not restricted to only "infallibly" defined teaching, but papal teaching broadly requires that 'the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastors," "to suffer themselves to be guided and led in all things that touch upon faith or morals by the Holy Church of God through its Supreme Pastor the Roman Pontiff," "of submitting with docility to their judgment," with "no discussions regarding what he orders or demands, or up to what point obedience must go, and in what things he is to be obeyed... not only in person, but with letters and other public documents ;" and 'not limit the field in which he might and must exercise his authority, " for "obedience must not limit itself to matters which touch the faith: its sphere is much more vast: it extends to all matters which the episcopal power embraces," and not set up "some kind of opposition between one Pontiff and another. Those who, faced with two differing directives, reject the present one to hold to the past, are not giving proof of obedience to the authority which has the right and duty to guide them," "Nor must it be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent." (Sources http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3578348/posts?page=14#14)
I’m not trying to convert anyone. I just feel badly for many Catholics right now. It cannot be easy. Would you still go to mass if the priest was openly gay, the nuns all married, and every homily about the evils of capitalism and the need to support Antifa? Or would you stay home, worship on your own, and pray for the church to repent?
I’m not trying to provoke, just trying to understand one Catholic’s opinion.
Indeed, and the most liberal Prots tend to be those closest to Catholicism. Thank God I am not a Catholic or a Protestant.
“Would you still go to mass if the priest was openly gay, the nuns all married, and every homily about the evils of capitalism and the need to support Antifa?”
It’s a difficult matter, on which I have been praying, contemplating, and conversing for years.
Right now, my answer to your question is no, I would not accept such heresy.
Some Catholics think I am wrong. I don’t know. I’m doing the best I can.
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