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To: boatbums

Wow...you put words into the mouth of James that James never said.

James did not speak at all about being justified before men but before God. Men cannot justify but God can. Abraham obeyed God in offering Issac therefore he justified before God and by God not before men or by men.


105 posted on 10/11/2020 5:48:12 AM PDT by Oneanddone ( we)
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To: Oneanddone
Wow...you put words into the mouth of James that James never said.

While Catholics ignore the words from Jesus' mouth that He DID say!


Call no man father.

134 posted on 10/11/2020 6:13:44 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Oneanddone
Wow...you put words into the mouth of James that James never said. James did not speak at all about being justified before men but before God. Men cannot justify but God can. Abraham obeyed God in offering Issac therefore he justified before God and by God not before men or by men.

It's not putting words into the mouth of James, it's reading the words IN CONTEXT! It's also reading the words in light of OTHER verses and what they say. Too many times people take verses out of their context, try to "interpret" them in a bubble THEN they have to explain how they don't contradict other things Scripture says. It is something we have always had to be aware of. Peter warned believers about those who wrest Scripture to their own (and others') destruction, most notably the writings of Paul:

    And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote unto you; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, knowing these things beforehand, beware lest, being carried away with the error of the wicked, ye fall from your own stedfastness. (II Peter 3:15-17)

Paul spoke a lot about God's grace that sets many works-based salvation people off. I can see why they don't like him! But you cannot take a single isolated verse or passage and develop a doctrine from it while ignoring other verses that contradict that doctrine.

Case in point is James. Read what he is talking about leading up to that verse. It's all about how genuine faith is lived - how others see your faith in action. Abraham is an example. Abraham was justified by faith long before Isaac was even born so there goes your argument. Genesis tells us:

    Abram believed the LORD, and it was credited to him as righteousness. (Gen. 15:6)

Even James acknowledged that in chapter 2, verse 23. Abraham is given to us an example of a living, active faith. Did God need to see his outward action to know if his faith was genuine? No. God looks on the heart, it's man that looks on the outward appearance. And we probably all know of people who seem to be "good" Christians but who we then find out were faking it. So, James is talking about that specifically - how faith is demonstrated by what we do, Look at the entire passage in context:

    What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you tells him, “Go in peace; stay warm and well fed,” but does not provide for his physical needs, what good is that? So too, faith by itself, if it does not result in action, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless? Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God. As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone. In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute justified by her actions when she welcomed the spies and sent them off on another route? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. (James 2:14-26)

Count how many times James says, "you see..". God knows if you have true faith. Others only see it by how you act. A living, genuine faith has actions that prove it's real. So, I hope you can see that actions speak louder than words. If you really do believe, your life changes, you are born again into the family of God, the Holy Spirit dwells within you, you are a new creature in Christ. Your faith grows, matures, you are disciplined and nurtured by God's love. By faith is how you receive the gift of God which is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Your actions/works that come from your faith is NOT what saves you - by grace are you saved THROUGH faith and not of yourselves, It is the gift of God, not of works lest ANY should boast. None of us will have anything to boast about before God.

These two pieces really touched me and help to put this in perspective:

    "A prince, while he is a little child, is presumably as willful and as ignorant as other little children. Sometimes he may be very obedient and teachable and affectionate, and then he is happy and approved. At other times he may be unruly, self-willed, and disobedient, and then he is unhappy, and perhaps is chastised—but he is just as much a prince on the one day as on the other. It may be hoped that, as time goes on, he will learn to bring himself into willing and affectionate subjection to every right way, and then he will be more princely, but not more really a prince. He was born a prince" (C.I.Scofield, Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth).

    "The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation, but washes you upon the Rock of Ages." -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

139 posted on 10/11/2020 8:22:01 PM PDT by boatbums (Lord, make my life a testimony to the value of knowing you.)
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