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To: MHGinTN

“In 1st Chronicles 24 and following David identifies a category of priesthood involving many families from whom the duty as priests for the Temple work will activate. Though the Temple is not yet built, these are the category identified as the four and twenty elders. This is a category identity since the numbers are well beyond a mere twenty-four individuals and refers to the rotating priesthood of Temple workers drawn from many families named in the passages there in 1st Chronicles.”

In 1 Chron. 23 & 24 I see David — as his last act before passing on — numbering the Levites, and ascertaining who was serving in what capacity. I do not see a definitive, “this, is that” here in Chronicles that connects the 24,000 (out of the 38,000) Levites with the 24 Elders John saw, BUT that’s not unsettling, because we might not expect to see it here in the historical record. Where we absolutely MUST find it, though, is in John’s Revelation.

John, to his credit, is good about indicating what things are as he literally sees them, and what things are symbols. The Seven Lampstands (Rev. 1:12,20), he records that they represent the Seven Churches; the bowls of incense (Rev. 5:8) he identifies as a metaphor for the prayers of the saints.

By contrast, the four living creatures — as fantastically as he describes them — are not identified as anything other than what he literally sees them to be: four really stunning creatures that tax the limits of his descriptive powers.

Likewise, the 24 Elders are not said to be representative of, or a metaphor for, anything; they are what he literally sees them to be. There is not the necessary verse in Revelation establishing a link to the accounting of the priesthood in Chronicles. Given John’s diligence to alert us to things that are symbolic, we should fully expect to see the 24 Elders explained as symbolic immediately following their first introduction to us in Revelation 4.

Around the throne were twenty-four thrones; and upon the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white garments, and golden crowns on their heads.
— Rev. 4:4

If the Elders are anything other than just what they appear to be, here’s John’s GOLDEN opportunity to tell us so; there should be a verse saying something like, “These 24 Elders are the ...” whatever it is that they represent.

But there’s no such explanation given, and without it I have no scriptural basis to conjecture — much less conclude — that the 24 Elders are anything other than 24 as-yet-unnamed individuals of regal, crowned status, who sit upon 24 thrones in the Presence of God worshiping Him continually.

If you have that definitive scriptural linkage, I’m open to giving it a fair hearing, but I don’t yet see the connection you’re claiming is there.

Is there an author out there someplace who has synthesized this view out of a broader selection of the scriptural record? I’ve gotta admit I’ve never heard this idea in the 50 years of my Christian history, so I’m interested in its origins.


127 posted on 10/09/2020 12:10:37 PM PDT by HKMk23 (You ask how to fight an idea? Well, I'll tell you how: with another idea!)
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To: HKMk23
I have not a single written 'scholarly' account upon which I reached my conclusion. I am positing this notion based upon how David IDed a class of families' representatives to serve int he Temple, and the characteristics of the four and twenty elders in The Revelation, having crowns (Bema Set rewards of the redeemed) and white raiment of the redeemed, and the prayers of saints and harps, and are singing the New Song (New Testament). If you disagree, that's fine, this is not something upon which individual salvation rests. And the four and twenty designation in The OT is merely a metaphor for the four and twenty from the Church Age. How else do you understand the following:

Rev 5:8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;
For You were slain,
And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
10 And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth” [Referencing our work during the Millenial Reign of Christ, as the redeemed Body of Christ Believers in glorified real physical bodies are tasked with dealing with the still 4D people populating the Earth during the millennium]

11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice: [many, as in many angels, is usually less than ten thousand times ten thousand]and thousands of thousands; the many is reduced in significance as a numbering by the following ten thosaunds time ten thousands and thousands of thousands; leaving the category ID of the four and twenty elders to fill the total number in the scene]

“Worthy is the Lamb who was slain
To receive power and riches and wisdom,
And strength and honor and glory and blessing!”

...

14Then the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped Him who lives forever and ever. [ the huge number is again back to four living creatures and the four and twenty elders, for my mind a reason to believe the scene is expanded and contracted for John so he may focus on the coming revelations.]

128 posted on 10/09/2020 1:09:20 PM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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