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To: Cronos
What nine characteristics help us to identify the little horn power?

Location: out of 4th beast and among the ten horns (v.8) - The Papacy arose out of Rome among the ten tribal divisions of Rome

Timing: after the ten were established (v.8) - the Papacy became a political power by decree of the Roman emperor Justinian in AD 538 which was after the emergence of the ten tribal divisions that emerged as the Roman Empire fell apart in AD 476.

Uprooted three of the ten horns (v.8) - As the Papacy came to prominence, it influenced Pagan Roman armies to destroy three of the tribes which opposed its Christian doctrines. These three were the Vandals, Ostrogoths, and Heruli. The last of these was destroyed in AD 538 when Justinian’s decree went into effect.

Eyes and mouth of a man (v.8) - the Papacy has a man as its visible head.

Persecutes the saints (v.21, 25) - Ever hear of the Papal persecution during the dark ages - Inquisition, etc. More than 50 million Protestant Christians tortured and killed by the Catholic Church.

Different from the other ten horns (v.24) - the Papacy was a religio-political entity different from the kingdoms before it.

Speak out against God (v.8, 11, 20, 25) - Verse 8 says it will utter boastful or blasphemous things. One quote of many like it from Prompta Bibliothea Canonica Juridicia Moralis Theologica appearing in the Catholic Encyclopedia Volume VI, pp. 25-29, “The Pope is of so great dignity, and so exalted, that he is not a mere man, but as it were, God and the Vicar of God. The Pope is, as it were, God on earth, chief king of kings, having plentitude of power.”

Little Horn attempts to change God’s times and laws (v.25) - The Papacy deleted the second commandment of the Decalogue on idolatry, changed the Sabbath to Sunday in favour of sun worship and divided the tenth commandment on coveting into two parts to get back to Ten Commandments.

Have power for a time, times, and half a time (or three and a half years, forty two months, or 1260 days - see Revelation 12:6, 14) (v.25) - Applying the prophetic day for year principle established in Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6 that equals 1260 years. The Papacy lasted in primary power from AD 538 to 1798 in which year Napoleon’s general Berthier marched into Rome, deposed the Pope, and carried him into exile where he died.

132 posted on 09/29/2020 9:35:43 AM PDT by Philsworld
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To: Philsworld
Location: out of 4th beast and among the ten horns (v.8) - The Papacy arose out of Rome among the ten tribal divisions of Rome

What are you talking about???

there were no 10 tribal divisions of rome -- Rome had 30 tribes established by Servius Tullius in 578 BC. It went down to 20 at the beginning of the republic but then pushed up to 35 in 241 BC

Where do you get "ten tribal divisions of Rome"

Your biblical knowledge is as flawed as your historical

138 posted on 09/29/2020 9:56:44 AM PDT by Cronos (2001-2020)
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To: Philsworld
Timing: after the ten were established (v.8) - the Papacy became a political power by decree of the Roman emperor Justinian in AD 538

Wait a minute -- you said "It will rise to be a great power after the fall of the pagan Roman Empire (after 476 AD)"

So, you are now saying that there was a Roman emperor after the fall of the Roman empire in your head?

139 posted on 09/29/2020 9:58:36 AM PDT by Cronos (2001-2020)
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To: Philsworld
became a political power by decree of the Roman emperor Justinian in AD 538 which was after the emergence of the ten tribal divisions that emerged as the Roman Empire fell apart in AD 476.

So, so very wrong historically

Firstly - Justinian did nothing in 538 AD. In fact the Pope in 538 Ad, Vigilius was arrested and imprisoned in 545 AD by Justinian

Secondly, there were NO "ten tribal divisions of Rome" - what are you smoking?

Thirdly, the Roman Empire didn't "fall apart in 476 AD

140 posted on 09/29/2020 10:03:26 AM PDT by Cronos (2001-2020)
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To: Philsworld
Phil - your biblical knowledge is as poor as your historical knowledge.

in 476 AD what happened in the city of Rome? Julius Nepo was still the de jure Augustus of the Western Empire, there was Odoacer the Gothic consul who was heavily Latinized as the other Goths. He paid nominal allegiance to Nepos (now in Dalmatia) while effectively operating autonomously, having been raised to the rank of patrician by Zeno. Odoacer retained the Roman administrative system, cooperated actively with the Roman Senate, and his rule was efficient and successful.

Odoacer's successor Theodoric kept the Augustus in Constantinople as his nominal suzereign.

The Roman Empire in the West never "fell" - it was occupied by the Romanized Germans as de jure rulers who acknowledged the Augustus in Constantinople as their ruler

This continued until 800 AD when Charlemagne was crowned as Western Roman Emperor. This set off a power struggle between East and West that wasn't satisfied until the Ottonian empire in the 900s that reverted to being a Germanic empire (though retaining the nomenclature of HRE, the true Roman emperor didn't care)

the Roman Empire fell apart in 1453, not before

143 posted on 09/29/2020 10:09:32 AM PDT by Cronos (2001-2020)
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To: Philsworld
As the Papacy came to prominence, it influenced Pagan Roman armies to destroy three of the tribes which opposed its Christian doctrines. These three were the Vandals, Ostrogoths, and Heruli. The last of these was destroyed in AD 538 when Justinian’s decree went into effect.

Phil - your historical knowledge is as poor as your biblical knowledge

Firstly, the Vandals, Ostrogoths and Heruli invaded the CHRISTIAN Roman Empire, not the pagan Roman Empire

Secondly, the Heruli - sheesh -- he Heruli were one of the peoples dominated by the empire of Attila the Hun. By 454, after the death of Attila, they established their own kingdom on the Middle Danube, and Heruli also participated in successive conquests of Italy by Odoacer, Theoderic the Great, Narses and probably also the Lombards. Their independent kingdom was however destroyed by the Lombards in the early 6th century AD.

Ostrogoths -- really? Have you even read "the Gothic wars"? The Papacy opposed the Roman attempt to conquer back italy as this was a bloody war that depopulated the peninsula

Next, the Papacy came into prominence back in the 1st century when Clement of Rome was noted

Furthermore, you don't seem to have any clue about who Charlemagne was?

Read the Bible and read some history

144 posted on 09/29/2020 10:17:49 AM PDT by Cronos (2001-2020)
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To: Philsworld
during the dark ages... More than 50 million Protestant Christians tortured and killed by the Catholic Church.

The population of Europe in 1492 was 70 million.

your 50 million is, idiotic

The Spanish inquisition executed 3000 people - far less than the Catholics executed by the Anglicans, far less than the Calvinists murdering Catholics and Anabaptists, far less than Luther's killing of Anabaptists and Catholics.

You really need to see how hilarious wrong you are, biblically and historically

145 posted on 09/29/2020 10:20:04 AM PDT by Cronos (2001-2020)
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To: Philsworld
The anti-Christ vision fits Nero perfectly.

The little horn "had a mouth that spoke great things" and "shall speak words against the Most high" (7:20, 25).

NERO blasphemed against God by aggressively enforcing emperor worship - down to getting the Sanhedrin to authorise Emperor worship in the temple grounds itself.

Even the uprooting of 3 other royalty is Nero uprooting AGrippina, Claudius and Britannicus

Daniel's vision even accurately predicts the death of Nero - His dominion shall be taken away, to be consumed and destroyed tot he end - 7:26 --> Nero's death ended the Julio-Claudian dynasty

We are even told the LENGTH of time during which the little horn will age war against "the law" -- read Dan 7:25 25 And he shall speak words against the High One, and shall crush the saints of the most High: and he shall think himself able to change times and laws, and they shall be delivered into his hand until a time, and times, and half a time. -- for a time (1) and times (2) and half a time (0.5) = 3.5 years. This is the 500 BC ancient way of saying 3.5 years.

The 3.5 years coincides precisely with the events in the first century -- the Jewish-Roman war lasted from February 67 AD to August 70 AD == 3.5 years or 42 months or 1260 days

146 posted on 09/29/2020 10:21:16 AM PDT by Cronos (2001-2020)
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To: Philsworld
As well as being historically wrong, you are biblically wrong

Dan 7 After this, in the visions of the night I saw a fourth beast, terrifying, horrible, and of extraordinary strength; it had great iron teeth with which it devoured and crushed, and it trampled with its feet what was left. It differed from the beasts that preceded it. It had ten horns. 8 I was considering the ten horns it had, when suddenly another, a little horn, sprang out of their midst, and three of the previous horns were torn away to make room for it. This horn had eyes like human eyes, and a mouth that spoke arrogantly.

Firstly - this is about the fourth kingdom - the Roman Empire.

SEcondly, you missed verses 24 onwards The ten horns shall be ten kings rising out of that kingdom; another shall rise up after them, Different from those before him, who shall lay low three kings. 25 He shall speak against the Most High and wear down the holy ones of the Most High, intending to change the feast days and the law.[j] They shall be handed over to him for a time, two times, and half a time. 26 But when the court is convened, and his dominion is taken away to be abolished and completely destroyed,

ten KINGS - individuals

And the Hebrew word is melek - royalty, not kings

This is also tied in to His speaking against he Most High BUT

verse 27 Then the kingship and dominion and majesty of all the kingdoms under the heavens shall be given to the people of the holy ones of the Most High, Whose kingship shall be an everlasting kingship, whom all dominions shall serve and obey.”

The Messiah wins even after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD

And what is the New Jerusalem that the Messiah inaugurates? It is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church

149 posted on 09/29/2020 10:26:23 AM PDT by Cronos (2001-2020)
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