I am a 4th gen SDA (maybe even further back). I believe in the Trinity and that’s what the SDA church teaches. And as far as Jesus being Michael the archangel and a created being, here’s what I and the SDA church believe. (see link below). I’ve explained this to Cronos but be can’t seem to understand it, because he keeps repeating that SDA’s think Jesus is a created being. Angel means messenger. Archangel is Chief Messenger. Jesus is certainly that as he came to this world with a message of salvation, straight from his Father. The Catholic Church, of which Cronos is a member, agrees with me. So, Cronos is making stuff up. No SDA believes that Jesus is a created being because that’s ridiculous. Please read the article at the bottom of the page (aloha.net)
Entry on Angels, Catholic Encyclopedia online:
As an instance of how convinced some of the Fathers were in holding the opposite view, we may note Theodoret’s words (In Exod.): “The whole passage (Exodus 3) shows that it was God who appeared to him. But (Moses) called Him an angel in order to let us know that it was not God the Father whom he saw — for whose angel could the Father be? — but the Only-begotten Son, the Angel of great Counsel” (cf. Eusebius, Hist. Eccles., I, ii, 7; St. Irenaeus, Haer., iii, 6).
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm
http://aloha.net/~mikesch/michael.htm
Thanks. None of us has to agree on doctrines. Especially those that make no obvious sense and which the church itself has designated a “mystery” for centuries. But it is only fair to all that doctrines he stated as accurately as possible and not misrepresented, even inadvertently. With accurate statements we can then discuss doctrines intelligently. Inaccurate foundations can only lead to inaccurate results.
I bought plenty of popcorn today. Gonna hang out ...
If you say SDA are Trinitarian then
1. Don’t the SDA hold to only the “Clear Word Bible” and not the KJV? This publication has inserted the words and doctrines of Ellen G. White right into the Bible text, insuring that the person studying it will have the mind of Ellen G. White.
2. Ellen G. White wrote in Patriarchs and Prophets, page 761, “...He (Jesus) was revealed to them as the Angel of Jehovah, the Captain of the Lord’s Host, Michael the Archangel”. Isn’t that true?
3. Have the SDA rejected the teachings of their 19th century founder, Ellen G White?
Next you post a link to aloha-net or whatever. And state that Jesus is the Archangel Michael.
So you then agree that the Adventist belief is that Jesus is the Archangel Michael, right?
That’s false — Paul writes to the Philippians (Philippians 2:5–11) how Jesus, while being in the form of God, not an angel, became something he was not: a human being. But he did not stop being God. But while on earth he lived as a man except he never sinned. He died on the cross for the sake of mankind so that we may be reconciled with God. Jesus is the only way to salvation, to paradise, to heaven, to be again in the presence of God. Still on Philippians 2:9–11, it says that God exalted Jesus and gave him a name above every other name so that every knee should bow, IN HEAVEN, in earth and under earth that Jesus Christ is Lord. Based on this passage, angels have never been in the form of God. So Michael can’t be Jesus
Also, in Revelations, when John bows before an angel (Rev 19:9) the angel says “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant and of the brethren who have testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”(New King James Version). If the angel tells John that they are both fellow servants, hence both bow down before Jesus, that means that even Michael the archangel bows before Jesus (back to Philippians 2:9–10).
Angels are angels, and Jesus is God and man… very different categories. The Bible tells us so much about Jesus, and He should not be confused with the archangel Michael or Gabriel.
Only a cult with false and confusing teaching would say this.
The fact is that the Adventist and the Jehovah’s Witness non-Christian religions are two sides of the same coin.
Both are falling away from Christianity, led by anti-Christs as both demote Christ - the Adventists to just an archangel, and the JW’s even less
In the early to mid 1800’s in America, there was a time called, “ The Second Great Awakening.”
Many of the folks like Ellen White, Darby, Miller etc. needed a gimmick to get followers - think of the Adventists and Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons as the 19th century versions of the Joel Osteen or worse, the Scientology crowd
You could choose, so many zealous people came up with stories dubbing themselves prophets or the restoration. They needed a gimmick. They all claimed to teach the TRUE CHRISTIANITY, that the other denominations had failed to do. Their were many splinter groups, but the three most famous, and the ones who are still prevalent today would be;
Joseph Smith Jr’s Mormons,
Charles Taze Russell’s Jehovah Witnesses’ and
Ellen G. White’s Seventh Day Adventist
They are all known for something very different from the main stream denominations, that is kind of the reason they caught on. They claimed to have the full “truth.” They are classified as restorationist as opposed to protestant, or orthodox, but they don’t themselves agree of call themselves that.
Source: Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
מִיכָאֵל Mîykâʼêl, me-kaw-ale'; from H4310 and (the prefix derivative from) H3588 and H410; who (is) like God?; Mikael, the name of an archangel and of nine Israelites:—Michael.
It is an interrogative “who is like God?”, even it meant “who is like God” an affirmation, which it is not the case.
It happens that Jesus is not like God, he is God almighty.
here is the proof that Michael is not Jesus.
10And, behold, an hand touched me, which set me upon my knees and upon the palms of my hands. 11And he said unto me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright: for unto thee am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling. 12Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words. 13But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia. 14Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.
Daniel 10
Verse 13 clearly says that Michael is one between many princes (archangels or chief of angels), Jesus can not be one of many, neither the verse says is the main one of chief princes, then he is not Michael.
Source: Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
מִיכָאֵל Mîykâʼêl, me-kaw-ale'; from H4310 and (the prefix derivative from) H3588 and H410; who (is) like God?; Mikael, the name of an archangel and of nine Israelites:—Michael.
It is an interrogative “who is like God?”, even it meant “who is like God” an affirmation, which it is not the case.
It happens that Jesus is not like God, he is God almighty.
here is the proof that Michael is not Jesus.
10And, behold, an hand touched me, which set me upon my knees and upon the palms of my hands. 11And he said unto me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright: for unto thee am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling. 12Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words. 13But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia. 14Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.
Daniel 10
Verse 13 clearly says that Michael is one between many princes (archangels or chief of angels), Jesus can not be one of many, neither the verse says is the main one of chief princes, then he is not Michael.
he SDA’s have an unusual approach to studying scripture called the “proof text” method. This enables them to come to conclusions that are nearly the exact opposite of Bible scholars who use contextual methods to study. SDA’s do this by extracting phrases from the Bible out of their context, without regard to whom it was written for, what circumstances existed surrounding the writing, and what intent the writer had as demonstrated by the entire passage. So superficially SDA’s can appear to more closely follow the text of scripture, but they achieve this by disregarding the holistic meaning of the text.
In Daniel 10:13, we’re told that Michael is “one of the chief princes”, meaning there are more divine beings operating at his level, which CANNOT be said about Jesus’. To corroborate this, Jesus Christ in John 8:58 reveals Himself as “I AM” which is exactly the name God identifies Himself as when speaking with Moses in Exodus 3:14. Additionally, prophet Isaiah when describing the Messianic King who was to be born states..
For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6). Did you catch that? MIGHTY GOD - indicating His deity. It’s clear as day!
But the Adventists hold that Ellen White’s words were to be followed, right?