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Mary and Jesus More Closely Related than we may have Thought.. Holy DNA !
Defenders of the Catholic Faith Ministry ^ | 8-21-2020 | Steve Ray

Posted on 08/26/2020 1:41:57 PM PDT by MurphsLaw

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To: metmom
Yes, my bad...
I was literally running out the door.... didn’t want to think I was ignoring you....

And you know I usually format so that there is max readability.... for max understandability...
61 posted on 08/26/2020 5:55:06 PM PDT by MurphsLaw (“In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti...Amen”)
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To: heterosupremacist

Hah !
No saint here !!!


62 posted on 08/26/2020 5:56:46 PM PDT by MurphsLaw (“In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti...Amen”)
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To: Bayard

https://web.archive.org/web/20140803220107/http://tquid.sharpens.org/Luther_%20canon.htm

More, including Luther’s own words on the subject, by the grace of God.


63 posted on 08/26/2020 5:57:28 PM PDT by Luircin
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To: LadyDoc

Scripture does not support any of your claims.


64 posted on 08/26/2020 6:00:31 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith.)
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To: Texas_Guy
Exactly! Mary is ever virgin.

Not according to Scripture.

Matthew 1:24-25 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife, but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.

So why is it such a big deal to Catholics that Mary was always a virgin?

65 posted on 08/26/2020 6:04:49 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith.)
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To: SkyDancer

Both lineages are from David but Joseph’s was disqualified because one of his ancestors was cursed.


66 posted on 08/26/2020 6:05:48 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith.)
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To: Bayard
So clearly Jesus had no siblings.

Only an assumption based on wishful thinking.

What's the problem with Jesus having siblings born of Mary?

67 posted on 08/26/2020 6:07:00 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith.)
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To: Bayard
The books of the Bible were had by those other Christian sects, as well. Luther merely borrowed what he had at hand, just like those sects and the Catholic sect borrowed the Torah.

In fact, you would find the Orthodox churches would claim they fashioned your Bible, so your Catholic claim is provably hogwash from all sides. This is good, as the sick perversion of the Catholic Church leadership is about as corruptive as Satan himself being in charge. I take it you see your disgusting Pope as your Church’s leader on behalf of God, correct?

68 posted on 08/26/2020 6:14:38 PM PDT by ConservativeMind (Trump: Befuddling Democrats, Republicans, and the Media for the benefit of the US and all mankind.)
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To: metmom

Disqualified doesn’t change the DNA so they might be cousins or something generations removed(?)


69 posted on 08/26/2020 6:15:38 PM PDT by SkyDancer (~ Pilots: Looking Down On People Since 1903 ~)
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To: metmom

No it’s what the early Church believed, as well as the so called reformers such as Luther and Calvin.

https://www.catholic.com/tract/mary-ever-virgin


70 posted on 08/26/2020 6:15:55 PM PDT by Texas_Guy
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To: Bayard
There are plenty of apocryphal and Gnostic versions of the Bible that could have made it into the official list of scriptures, but the Church insisted for well over a thousand years before your Martin Luther even thought to remove his seven, because “reasons.”

Luther removed nothing.

You apparently have fallen for that lie and shouldn't be repeating it.

Here, read and learn.

Luther's Canon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther%27s_canon

"Luther included the deuterocanonical books in his translation of the German Bible, but he did relocate them to after the Old Testament, calling them "Apocrypha, that are books which are not considered equal to the Holy Scriptures, but are useful and good to read." He also considered the relocation of the Book of Esther from the canon to the Apocrypha, because without the deuterocanonical additions to the Book of Esther, the text of Esther never mentions God."

So now you know and you don't have to embarrass yourself any more by repeating something that you now know is false.

71 posted on 08/26/2020 6:15:55 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith.)
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To: metmom

A few empowerment myths are riding on keeping the Catholic Mary a virgin. One hidden in the inferences is that keeping Mary a virgin means no other children could ‘contaminate’ the link being proposed/asserted.


72 posted on 08/26/2020 6:16:11 PM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: Luircin

Ever have a prayer meeting where other Christians are asked to pray for someone?

There’s your answer.

Also read Revelations and ask why the prayers sent to the Saints, such as Mary, are offered up to God as sweet, pleasing incense.


73 posted on 08/26/2020 6:18:42 PM PDT by Texas_Guy
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To: SkyDancer

I’m missing your point.

Mary was of the house and lineage of David and the Messiah came through her.

While Joseph was also of that house and lineage, he could not have been the father of the Messiah because of the curse on his ancestor, that no descendant of his would ever sit on the throne.


74 posted on 08/26/2020 6:20:06 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith.)
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To: SkyDancer

But Jesus did not have Joseph’s DNA.


75 posted on 08/26/2020 6:20:31 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith.)
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To: Texas_Guy

And you’re referencing the Protoevangelium to back your claim up????????

What a hoot.

But that really doesn’t answer the question.

Why is it such a problem for Catholicism and Catholics if Mary had sex with Joseph and Jesus had half brothers and sisters through Mary as a result?


76 posted on 08/26/2020 6:22:52 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith.)
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To: MHGinTN

What I recall hearing as a young Catholics, was that Mary was always a virgin because she was sinless.

And I have had Catholics tell me that in the past.

IOW, sex is a sin, and Mary would have been a sinner had she had sex as any wife would with her husband.


77 posted on 08/26/2020 6:25:51 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith.)
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To: Texas_Guy

You fumbled a couple of your assertions: the bowls of prayers offered UP BY the saints are not said offered to the Catholic Mary; the ones carrying the prayers are the four and twenty ELDERS not the Catholic Mary. And it might be amusing to read who you imagine the four and twenty Elders represent.


78 posted on 08/26/2020 6:26:07 PM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensation perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: Texas_Guy; Luircin
Also read Revelations and ask why the prayers sent to the Saints, such as Mary, are offered up to God as sweet, pleasing incense.

Where in Revelation does it say that the prayers were SENT TO the saints in heaven?

Chapter and verse, please.

Also, show where prayers are said to be sent to Mary ANYWHERE in Scripture.

Asking someone to pray for something is not praying TO them for something.

Catholics pray TO Mary and ask her to do things for them that should only be asked of God, and can only be done by Him.

79 posted on 08/26/2020 6:28:33 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith.)
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To: MurphsLaw; ConservativeMind; ealgeone; Mark17; fishtank; boatbums; Luircin; mitch5501; MamaB; ...
Ok good.... what do you think about Mary sharing - as all mothers do then - with their Child- and that the child ALSO receives cell transfer from the mother... do they - or dont they - SHARE biological material then??? everyone just wants to melt down into their corners and IGNORE the basis and information of the .... Did anyone actually read the article I posted? Its pretty amazing stuff for those f us who did not know this already about human pregnancy...

And so just what is the import of this? Uncensored RC ascriptions to the Mary of Catholicism already include assertions such as that,

...in the supernatural and spiritual generation there is a father who is God and a mother who is Mary; she is Mother of her Creator...through Whom the Holy Trinity is sanctified; The power thus put into her (Mary’s) hands is all but unlimited; surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven; At the command of Mary all obey, even God. She is omnipotent; Virgin most powerful; the greatness of the power which she wields over one who is God cannot be conceived; all in heaven and on earth, even God himself, is subject to the Blessed Virgin...she seems to have the same power as God. Her prayers and requests are so powerful with him that he accepts them as commands in the sense that he never resists his dear mother’s prayer because it is always humble and conformed to his will; when she acts, it is also He who acts; and that if her intervention be not accepted, neither is His.... Her position as "the first of all creatures, the most acceptable child of God, the nearest and dearest to him".. through her alone does He dispense His favours and His gifts; there is no grace which Mary cannot dispose of as her own, which is not given to her for this purpose;" above the Cherubim and higher than the Seraphim, right near God Himself!; Mary has authority over the angels and the blessed in heaven...God gave her the power and the mission of assigning to saints the thrones made vacant by the apostate angels who fell away through pride....all the angels in heaven unceasingly call out to her...They greet her countless times each day with the angelic greeting, "Hail, Mary", while prostrating themselves before her, begging her as a favour to honour them with one of her requests...The whole world is filled with her glory...Whatever desires the patriarchs may have cherished, whatever entreaties the prophets and saints of the Old Law may have had for 4,000 years to obtain that treasure, it was Mary alone who merited it; sometimes salvation is quicker if we remember Mary's name then if we invoked the name of the Lord Jesus; No one achieves salvation except through you...No one receives grace except through you; Thou are all-powerful in saving sinners; Beware, chosen soul, of thinking that it is more perfect to direct your work and intention straight to Jesus or straight to God; Lady in heaven, we have but one advocate, and that is thyself, and thou alone art truly loving and solicitous for our salvation; through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is his will, that we obtain everything through Mary; in Heaven we have but one advocate, and that is Thyself; and that Thou alone art truly loving and solicitous for our welfare; .you love us with a love that no other love can surpass. How often you appease the wrath of our Divine Judge, when He is on the point of punishing us! All the treasures of the mercy of God are in your hands; she had to suffer, as He did, all the consequences of sin. It was not only during the Passion that Jesus and Mary suffered for our sins; We were condemned through the fault of one woman; we are saved through the merits of another woman; to her, Jesus owes His Precious Blood...

Sources and more.

Note that many Catholic Marian attributions much parallel even that of Christ:

For in the the Catholic quest to almost deify Mary, it is taught by Catholics*,

Mary was a holy, virtuous instrument of God, but of whom Scripture says relatively little, while holy fear ought to restrain ascribing positions, honor, glory and powers to a mortal that God has not revealed as given to them, and or are only revealed as being possessed by God Himself. But like as the Israelites made an instrument of God an object of worship, (Num. 21:8,9; 2Kg. 18:4) Catholics have magnified Mary far beyond what is written and warranted and even allowed, based on what is in Scripture.

In addition, although (technically) Mary is not to be worshiped in the same sense that God is worshiped, yet the distinctions between devotion to Mary and the worship of God are quite fine, and much due to the psychological appeal of a heavenly mother (especially among those for whom Scripture is not supreme), then the historical practice of Catholics has been to exalt Mary above that which is written. As the Catholic Encyclopedia states, "By the sixteenth century, as evidenced by the spiritual struggles of the Reformers, the image of Mary had largely eclipsed the centrality of Jesus Christ in the life of believers." (Robert C. Broderick, ed., The Catholic Encyclopedia, revised and updated; NY: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1987, pp.32,33)

One would have a hard time in Bible times explaining kneeling before a statue and praising the entity it represented in the unseen world, even with adulation, attributes, glory and titles never given in Scripture to created beings (except to false gods), including having the uniquely Divine power glory to hear and respond to virtually infinite numbers of prayers addressed to them, and beseeching such for Heavenly help, and making offerings to them. Which would constitute worship in Scripture, yet Catholics imagine by playing word games they avoid crossing the invisible line between mere "veneration" and worship. </p> <p>Instead they should do what Mary and every believer in every prayer to Heaven did (and I should do more of), which was to pray directly to the Lord, not secretaries. But they must truly become born again for that.

"Moses, put down those rocks! I was only engaging in hyper dulia, not adoring her. Can't you tell the difference?"

The practice of praying to departed saints and Mary was one that developed, helped by pagan influences, for Scripture provides no example of any believer praying to anyone in Heaven by the Lord, and reveals that doing otherwise was a practice of pagans, including to the “Queen of Heaven.” (Jer. 44:17,18,19,25). The Catholic Encyclopedia speculates that a further reinforcement of Marian devotion, “was derived from the cult of the angels, which, while pre-Christian in its origin, was heartily embraced by the faithful of the sub-Apostolic age. It seems to have been only as a sequel of some such development that men turned to implore the intercession of the Blessed Virgin. This at least is the common opinion among scholars, though it would perhaps be dangerous to speak too positively. Evidence regarding the popular practice of the early centuries is almost entirely lacking...,” (Catholic Encyclopedia > Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary) Yet, as expected, it imagines this practice came from the apostles and NT church, but which never exampled or instructed it, and instead showed that the believer has immediate access to God in the Divine Christ, (Heb. 10:19), who is the all sufficient and immediate intercessor between God (the Father) and man. (Heb. 2:17,18; 4:15,16) To the glory of God

80 posted on 08/26/2020 6:29:46 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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