Shape up or ship out!!!
Posted on 07/24/2020 7:55:20 AM PDT by Teleios Research
Be convinced with these 4 biblical truths: 1. Each of us has sinned; 2. God is just, requiring a punishment for sin; 3. But out of love God sent His Son, Jesus Christ who by dying on the cross, provided forgiveness of sins in taking man’s deserved punishment; 4. Therefore, by faith alone in Christ’s sacrifice for our sins and belief in His resurrection, man can gain eternal life. (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 10:9-10, Romans 3:21-26) Read more at https://teleiosresearch.com/salvation-explanation/.
I too pray for the conversion of souls to Jesus Christ. What you don't seem to understand is that believers in Christ ARE following the universal Christian faith and that is different from what Roman Catholicism presumes it solely represents. That is what I reject - not Christ and not the Christian faith. It's really no skin off my nose where someone is led to worship, grow in the faith and share fellowship as long as they are taught the Word of God. The way you carry on it seems like you refuse to accept as fellow Christians, brothers and sisters in Christ, unless they choose to become Roman Catholics. That's not the right way to see things. God is so much bigger than that. Just be happy when "former Catholics" don't become nonbelievers but remain followers of Jesus Christ and live to honor and glorify Him in all we do - most times to an even greater extent than we did as RCs. That DOES happen outside of the Roman Catholic church. You don't have an exclusive claim to the faith.
Yeah, yeah that’s the ticket! ;o)
Yeah, yeah that’s the ticket! ;o)
It’s gonna be interesting how the MOTB (supposed to be going to church on Sunday according to you/SDA) gets applied to a hand or forehead so that no one can buy or sell without it.
I already told you. I told all of you.
Remind us again why Jesus died???
I like this explanation by Michael Schiefler:
So the author of the law, the Son of God, had to die because His Law could not be changed. It stands eternal, forever, the law of liberty and righteousness, the very character of God put in words. By dying in our place, He has offered His perfection, His ability to keep the Law of God perfectly, to you a sinner. The demands of the Law of God are met, paid for in full. By believing on Jesus Christ in this matter, you can put on His robe of Righteousness and God will consider you to be perfect, a keeper of the Law, fit to live with Him forever!
Now this is me talking:
Then we obey
And, if we don’t?
Hebrews 10:
26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
We will all be judged by God’s eternal 10 commandment law and there’s not on person on this earth right now that can get away from that.
Romans 2:
12All who sin apart from the Law will also perish apart from the Law, and all who sin under the Law will be judged by the Law. 13For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous.…
You don’t have to be perfect, but you do have to be sincere and do your very best. When your name comes up and you are judged worthy, you will be covered by the blood of Christ, declared sinless and perfect, and allowed into heaven. Jesus Christ will have been your advocate in front of our Heavenly Father. Willful sin is a big problem. You hear the truth and you turn your head and refuse, when you could have done your research and prayed to the Holy Spirit about it? Not good.
Revelation 11:
18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
So answer me this because I apparently missed it...Once you/we sin after we’re saved, how do we make it right???
Repent of that sin, pray to God for forgiveness
Go and sin no more (try not to)
see above post (905)
If you live under the law, Jesus can NOT become your once for all, for all time sacrifice...If you need the law to save you and keep you saved, Jesus died in vain...Only two choices and you can’t have both...You either trust yourself (and good luck with that) or you trust Jesus Christ...
You keep accusing me of being a legalist and keeping the law IN ORDER TO BE SAVED AND KEEP THAT SALVATION.
I am saved by Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ, JUST LIKE YOU ARE. Right?
Because of what Jesus Christ did for me on the Cross, I pledge my life to him and I will OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS. I will do His will. Those who don’t he calls LIARS.
I am not under the CONDEMNATION of the law because I have an advocate in Christ Jesus. I am covered by the blood of the covenant, HIS BLOOD. (atonement). But then again, there’s this....
Hebrews 10:
26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Those who willfully sin
Actually everyone needs an atonement for sin (except for the few exceptions to the rule)...Those people in Revelation need an atonement as well...And it has to be blood, from something...Something has to die...
Perhaps what you missed is that for the first three and a half years of the Tribulation Israel will be holding temple worship in their new temple which will include animal sacrifices to atone for their sins...
“Perhaps you missed” that there is only one sacrifice for sins and that was His death, and His blood?
Hebrews 10:
11Day after day every priest stands to minister and to offer again and again the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when this Priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, He sat down at the right hand of God. 13Since that time, He waits for His enemies to be made a footstool for His feet,…
There is only one way that the death of Jesus Christ could have ended and that is with His blood on the mercy seat of the Ark of the covenant, as the final blood sacrifice for sins, accepted by God the Father. Did that happen?
I'll post that question to our resident bible college graduate as well, Boatbums.
Here's some information on the Ark of the Covenant for your consideration.
The Ark of the Covenant was specifically made to house the tables of testimony, ie. the tables of stone on which God with His own finger wrote the ten commandments. It was also used to house the “law of Moses”, which was placed in the “side of the Ark” (Deuteronomy 31:26). The Shekinah glory, ie. the Presence of God, also rested on the Mercy Seat of the Ark between the cherubim after it was installed in the wilderness sanctuary.
The Ark was dedicated for use in the wilderness tabernacle as were the rest of the furnishings. Then it became a part of the sanctuary service that God gave to Israel. However, its only function in that service was on one day of the year, the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur), when the high priest of Israel sprinkled the blood of a bull and a goat on the Mercy Seat in order to make final atonement for the high priest and for Israel; to cleanse the sanctuary of the accumulated sins of the nation over that past year (Leviticus 16). In doing this the high priest was bringing “before the Lord” the evidence that an atoning sacrifice had been made………… that the price for sin (“the wages of sin is death” Romans 6:23) had been paid. On the strength of the acceptance of this sacrifice, Israel and the sanctuary were cleansed of sin.
Your comment: “What you don’t seem to understand is that believers in Christ ARE following the universal Christian faith and that is different from what Roman Catholicism presumes it solely represents. That is what I reject - not Christ and not the Christian faith. It’s really no skin off my nose where someone is led to worship, grow in the faith and share fellowship as long as they are taught the Word of God.”
You say you do not reject Christ, but you say that you are no longer practicing the Catholic faith as a member of the Catholic Church that Jesus founded and authorized as His Church to lead all to eternal life with God. You claim a universal church that has no basis in history or the scriptures and is different from the Catholic Church.
You reject the Mass where the Catholic priest as the representative of Christ changes the bread and wine into the BODY AND BLOOD of Jesus so that Christ can abide in us as we abide in HIM. You reject most of the Sacraments.
Your comment:”The way you carry on it seems like you refuse to accept as fellow Christians, brothers and sisters in Christ, unless they choose to become Roman Catholics. That’s not the right way to see things.”
I try to love and treat everyone fairly. However, when someone posts what I believe is a false statement about the Catholic Church or God’s Truth, I try to respond with God’s Truth in the hope that they will understand and accept God’s Truth. I truly hope all will find and accept God’s love and I wish no ill on any one.
You follow many man-made church doctrines that are not God’s Truth and are not biblical. Christ expects unity in the beliefs of the Body of Christ and Satan with his lies has encouraged man to say they follow Christ with many different false beliefs. How can so many christian religions all teach the real Truth of God? They don’t.
I believe that many Christians are following their own will in what they believe (and practice)and do not follow God’s will. There are many catholics that may not fully believe and follow God’s will.
I do believe that rejecting God’s Catholic Church and His Truth is a mortal sin. “Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith...” CCC2089. “Apostasy is a total repudiation of the faith.” CCC2089 “Schism is the refusal to submit to the pope’s authority as head of the church.” Christ calls us to have a prayerful, reconciling attitude toward people with difficulties in their faith, to help them toward assent to the truth of faith.
I do firmly believe that all baptized Catholics’ salvation comes through the Catholic Church and the Sacraments. Without a contrite heart and the Sacrament of Reconciliation then we may not enter Heaven.
Yes. “Enter by the narrow gate;.... For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those that find it are few.” Matthew 7:13-14
I like this explanation by Michael Schiefler:
So the author of the law, the Son of God, had to die because His Law could not be changed. It stands eternal, forever, the law of liberty and righteousness, the very character of God put in words. By dying in our place, He has offered His perfection, His ability to keep the Law of God perfectly, to you a sinner. The demands of the Law of God are met, paid for in full. By believing on Jesus Christ in this matter, you can put on His robe of Righteousness and God will consider you to be perfect, a keeper of the Law, fit to live with Him forever!
Sounds pretty reasonable, except for one thing...While God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one, they are also three...The law was written by God the Father, not the Son...
Jesus had his own set of commandments...While God's law says 'do this' or pay a price, Jesus commandment is: I paid the price for you...'Love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself' and you will have fulfilled God's commandments...
Hebrews 10:
You and likely no one else is going to like this but this is the way I see it...
26For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
I don't know of anyone who sins unwillfully...I have perfected the art of sinning and it has never been against my will...The way I take this verse is that if we reject Jesus, there is nothing else that can atone for our sins...
27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Adversary...I am not an adversary...Even when I sin willfully, I am not an adversary of Jesus...Paul the apostle in Romans 7 sinned willfully and he was not counted an adversary of Jesus...
28He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
I don't believe there's ever been an actual born again Christian ever to change his mind to unbelief...
30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
So I don't believe this is a warning to a Christian who willingly sins after being saved...It is a warning to those who have heard the Gospel but reject it...
We will all be judged by God’s eternal 10 commandment law and there’s not on person on this earth right now that can get away from that.
I'm going to get away from that...
I will accompany Jesus at the end of the Tribulation when he comes to dish out his wrath on the inhabitants of the earth...I am a member of the bride of Jesus Christ...I have died, been buried and resurrected in Him...I am in Him and He is in me...I have been judged already and found to be just...I will be part of the First Resurrection...I will not be judged again...In fact, I will help the Lord mete out his judgement...
Romans 2:
12All who sin apart from the Law will also perish apart from the Law, and all who sin under the Law will be judged by the Law. 13For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous.…
You don’t have to be perfect, but you do have to be sincere and do your very best.
Well that's quite a contradiction...You're going from you MUST be obedient to you have to try to be obedient as much as you can...
And then you (again) post a verse from Romans 2 (and again) neglect a verse in Romans 3 dealing with the same subject...
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
But now??? Something changed...
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
But now, we are not judged by the law...The folks at the White Throne Judgment will be judged by the law but Paul tells us the church will NOT be judged by the law...
When your name comes up and you are judged worthy
Here is the judgment for the Christian in the church age...
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
Now that's pretty simple and straightforward...
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
The wood, hay and stubble will be burned up...It won't survive to be written in your history...And we will be saved since our bad works are burned and we are saved by the fire that burned them...Do you see any kind of condemnation at this judgement??? No you don't...
You keep accusing me of being a legalist and keeping the law IN ORDER TO BE SAVED AND KEEP THAT SALVATION.
I am saved by Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ, JUST LIKE YOU ARE. Right?
Because of what Jesus Christ did for me on the Cross, I pledge my life to him and I will OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS. I will do His will. Those who don’t he calls LIARS.
I don't think so...The ones he call liars are the ones who say they don't commit sin, while at the same time Jesus says they do not commit sin...
I am not under the CONDEMNATION of the law because I have an advocate in Christ Jesus. I am covered by the blood of the covenant, HIS BLOOD. (atonement). But then again, there’s this....
But yet you're going to be judged at the White Throne Judgment for all the bad things you've done, according to the law...
For me, it's people like you who make the case for Dispensationalism...
Eph_3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Col_1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Sounds pretty reasonable, except for one thing...While God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one, they are also three...The law was written by God the Father, not the Son...
Says who?
First: in John 10:30 Jesus says “I and my Father are one.”
Second: everything created on this earth was created by Jesus Christ:
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
Third: If Jesus Christ is Lord of the Sabbath, then He is the author of the 10 commandment law. He was also the one on Mount Sinai with Moses and He was the one to lead the Israelites out of Egypt. And, every time God manifested Himself in the form of a man, etc.... It was Jesus Christ. Do you know how I know?
John 6:46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
And, John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father’s side, has made Him known.
And how about this one:
1 Timothy 6:16
He alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light. No one has ever seen Him, nor can anyone see Him. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.
Sin wilfully. That is, continue to sin willfully, as the form of the Greek verb indicates.
As the context makes evident (see v. 29), reference here is not to single acts of sin
committed in the full knowledge of their heinous character, but to the attitude of mind
that prevails when a person deliberately renounces Christ, refuses salvation, and rejects
the Holy Spirit. This is deliberate, persistent, defiant sin. It is a considered reversal of the
former decision to accept salvation in Christ and to yield one’s heart and life to Him. It is
premeditated apostasy, and leads to the unpardonable sin (see on Matt. 12:31,32). It is a
continuing state of revolt against God.
SDA Bible Commentary Hebrews 10:26
We been being 'warned' for almost 2,000 years!
It doesn't take yet another visitation from 'Mary' to get our attention.
"One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved, in which the priest himself is the sacrifice, Jesus Christ, whose body and blood are truly contained in the sacrament of the altar under the species of bread and wine; the bread (changed) into His body by the divine power of transubstantiation, and the wine into the blood, so that to accomplish the mystery of unity we ourselves receive from His (nature) what He Himself received from ours."
--Pope Innocent III and Lateran Council IV (A.D. 1215)
"We are compelled in virtue of our faith to believe and maintain that there is only one holy Catholic Church, and that one is apostolic. This we firmly believe and profess without qualification. Outside this Church there is no salvation and no remission of sins, the Spouse in the Canticle proclaiming: 'One is my dove, my perfect one. One is she of her mother, the chosen of her that bore her' (Canticle of Canticles 6:8); which represents the one mystical body whose head is Christ, of Christ indeed, as God. And in this, 'one Lord, one faith, one baptism' (Ephesians 4:5). Certainly Noah had one ark at the time of the flood, prefiguring one Church which perfect to one cubit having one ruler and guide, namely Noah, outside of which we read all living things were destroyed… We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff."
--Pope Boniface VIII, Bull Unam sanctam (A.D. 1302)
...would no longer be a Catholic??
There seems to be a bit of biblical confusion about this second set.
Well; there IS Joseph Smith...
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