Posted on 06/26/2020 1:38:34 PM PDT by JAG 5000
JAG 5000 Writes:
Man's Free Will is responsible for all the evil in the would.
God created a perfect world.
God created perfect human beings.
God gave human beings a Free Will.
Human beings used their Free Will to choose to do evil.
Human beings choosing to do evil is the reason we have natural disasters and evil in the world-- and the reason we have The Curse upon the Earth.
Many atheists blame the God of the Bible for all the natural disasters and all the evil in the world.
You may ask, "How can atheists blame the God of the Bible for evil when atheists do not believe that God exists?
Answer: They postulate that "if God does exist" then He is evil because the Bible presents God as being Omnipotent {all powerful} and therefore He could have created a world without any evil if He had wanted to do that. He did not want to do that, therefore He is evil.
So? So there are many atheists who have said that the God-That-Does-Not-Exist is responsible for all the evil in the world.
What does that mean? Well again atheists do not believe that God exists but, for the sake of argument, they say that if the God of the Bible does exist, then He is responsible for all the evil in the world because He is Omnipotent and could have designed a world without evil.
I just recently read a lengthy thread on another forum where an atheist and many of his fellow atheists blamed the God of the Bible for inflicting the COVID-19 virus on humanity.
Yes, sure! Again, I know that atheists do NOT believe that God exists. But they, for arguments sake, argue against the God of the Bible and say that "if He does exist", He would be evil because He could prevent evil, but chooses NOT to prevent it.
Has anyone read the books written by the infamous "New Atheists"? There are 4 of them. Their names are Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett, and the late Christopher Hitchens.
The atheist Richard Dawkins is an especially vile talking atheist. Here is what the atheist Richard Dawkins said about the God of the Bible:
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” ― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion
Again, the "New Atheists" do not believe that God actually exists. But they say that "if He does exist" He is evil as I explained above. I keep repeating this because a large number of Internet posters endlessly state that "Atheists do not believe that God exists" as if we did not know that. We do know that.
Back to what some atheists have said about the God-That-Does-Not-Exist . . .
They have specifically and clearly and emphatically declared that the God of the Bible IS responsible for the evil in the world.
Stephen Fry, an atheist, has a video on You Tube, He was being interviewed and he was asked, 'What would you say to God when you die and find out that Christianity is actually true, and you are standing at the pearly gates?
Stephen Fry replied that he was going to ask God "Why he put bone cancer in children? God, What is that all about?", replied Stephen Fry.
Stephen Fry's video went viral and has become infamous on the Internet. You see it quoted and linked to quite often.
____________
Back to The Problem Of Evil . . .
Centuries ago Epicurus formulated The Problem Of Evil like this:
Sayeth Epicurus:
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not Omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”__Epicurus
The Christian analytical philosopher Alvin Plantinga has a very good rebuttal to these "New Atheists" and to Epicurus.
Sayeth the Christian Alvin Plantinga:
{You will need to "deep read" what Plantinga says below and spend some time studying and seriously analyzing what Plantinga has written}
As Plantinga summarized his Free Will defense:[14]
"A world containing creatures who are significantly free (and freely perform more good than evil actions) is more valuable, all else being equal, than a world containing no free creatures at all. Now God can create free creatures, but He can't cause or determine them to do only what is right. For if He does so, then they aren't significantly free after all; they do not do what is right freely. To create creatures capable of moral good, therefore, He must create creatures capable of moral evil; and He can't give these creatures the freedom to perform evil and at the same time prevent them from doing so. As it turned out, sadly enough, some of the free creatures God created went wrong in the exercise of their freedom; this is the source of moral evil. The fact that free creatures sometimes go wrong, however, counts neither against God's omnipotence nor against His goodness; for He could have forestalled the occurrence of moral evil only by removing the possibility of moral good."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_...urther_details
End quote.
The "New Atheists" do not correctly understand the Biblical doctrine of the Omnipotence {all-powerful} of God.
Epicurus did not correctly understand the Christian doctrine of God's Omnipotence. God's Omnipotence does not mean that He can do anything. God cannot create square circles. God cannot make 2 + 2 = 7. God cannot give humans the Free Will to do evil and at the same time prevent humans from doing evil.
The fatal flaw in Epicurus is he misunderstood the Christian doctrine of the Omnipotence of the God of the Bible.
Conclusion: Mankind, NOT God, is the cause of sin, evil, and natural disasters in the world.
Allow me to clarify one other thing, after which, I will pose a couple questions. I do agree with you on some points. multiple scriptures state:
There is no good thing in us.
There is none righteous, no, not one.
We do not choose God, he chooses us.
It is His Spirit that works in us to will, not our own will.
So then, we cannot come to God except the Spirit draw us and and work in us — for it is the goodness of God that leads us to repentance.
That leaves the question:
Can we choose the Devil?
And if we do so, is that our will?
Allow me also ask you this:
BEFORE the fall of mankind to sin, did Eve choose to eat of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil?
I have heard people say of sin, “The Devil made me do it”,
But I find it odd that some would say, “God made me do it”
YOU made YOU do it.
Not you, Jammies...collective You. All of us.
I agree with you. God commanded. The Devil suggested. Eve chose. That simple; and it has been that way ever since. Even so, without God, our choice will be evil.
HarleyD,
* Thanks for your post.
* This issue has been argued back and forth
for 2000 years.
* This issue is argued back and forth on the Internet
every day.
* I expect that every day on the Internet there
are millions of words Copyed and Pasted into threads
by both sides of this issue.
* I have seen threads where it looked like 80%
of Bible Gateway AND Bible Hub had been Copyed
and Pasted into the thread.
* I encourage you to continue to present your case
in support of your personal views on this subject.
* You have a difference emphasis than I have.
* The Internet has presented a situation where
there is no need to even “raise an eyebrow”
when one encounters a different viewpoint.
* That means there are probably hundreds of
thousands of articles both FOR and AGAINST
what you believe.
* Those articles are at everybody’s fingertips.
One click and you have it right in front of you.
_____________
In another vein , , ,
* Its reasonably certain that I have a very much
different view of PRESENT DAY Christendom than
you do.
* Its reasonably certain that I have a very-much
different view of THE FUTURE of Christendom than
you do.
* I believe in a bright cheerful optimistic view
of the Christian future.
* I believe that the Lord’s Great Commission to His
Christian Church will be successfully carried out
by His Christian Church, through the power of the
Holy Spirit working through the Biblical gospel
message.
* That the Christian Church will actually go and
make disciples of all nations.
* The Lord Jesus will have dominion.
Christ “shall have dominion from sea to sea”
Psalm 72:8
“The whole earth will be filled with His glory”
Psalm 72:19
“All nations will call Him blessed”
Psalm 72:17
“The gospel is the power of God unto salvation”
Romans 1:16
* The Lord Jesus really meant it, when He told His
Christin Church to “go and make disciples of all
the nations” Matthew 28:19
Victory!
The Lord Jesus will have Vivtory!
Best.
JAG
```
No the Bible is NOT God’s words. You been lied to starting from the Council of Nicene. A council made up of men who decided what to put into the Bible. If it were God’s words, the Bible would not be the size that it is. The Bible is a written collection of oral stories passed down from generation to generation. The New Testament is not even written by the authors that are of the Book that they represent. They are the accounts of the Disciples. It is a history book, nothing more.
Again you use the words of the Bible to prove the Bible. That is a circular fallacy. And that is where you lose the argument.
Again not arguing Free Will because you conflate the two.
John 3:16 presents all people with a Free Will choice:
These are outcomes not choices. Why only two outcomes if it is not predetermined.
{1} Choose to perish
or
{2} Choose Eternal Life
Again Free Will.
Again you conflate choice with outcome. Why can I not choose either, because the outcome has already been decided for me. That is predetermination. Christianity and the like are considered predetermination religions. I choose neither to perish nor eternal life. Now what? What is my outcome?
“No the Bible is NOT God’s words. You been lied to starting from the Council of Nicene. A council made up of men who decided what to put into the Bible. If it were God’s words, the Bible would not be the size that it is. The Bible is a written collection of oral stories passed down from generation to generation. The New Testament is not even written by the authors that are of the Book that they represent. They are the accounts of the Disciples. It is a history book, nothing more.”___Zaxtres
________
“It {the Bible} is a history book and
nothing more.”___Zaxtres
________
“And that is where you lose the argument.”___Zaxtres
____________
* Laugh Out Loud.
* Its impossible to “lose an argument” on the Internet.
* What you can do is “make your points”
* Do you really believe that you sitting there
pecking away on your keyboard is going to have
any significent impact on this world?
* It is NOT.
* Soon this thread will be buried forever deep
within the “bowels of the Internet” never
to be seen again.
* Your rants against the Bible being God’s word
are no more than pharts against the wind.
* Please= feel free to continue to rant
and phart against the wind to your heart’s
content.
JAG
PS
“It {the Bible} is a history book and
nothing more.”___Zaxtres
False.
Please continue to phart against the wind.
Thank you.
Scot me up Beamy.
“No the Bible is NOT God’s words.
You been lied to starting from the
Council of Nicene. A council made
up of men who decided what to put
into the Bible. If it were God’s
words, the Bible would not be the
size that it is. The Bible is a
written collection of oral stories
passed down from generation to
generation. The New Testament is
not even written by the authors
that are of the Book that they
represent. They are the accounts
of the Disciples. It is a history
book, nothing more.”____Zaxtres
______
* False.
* Why don’t you make a decision to start posting
bright cheerful optimistic encouraging messages
instead of such as that up there?
* Christianity has enough problems as it is,
without you adding to the trouble with your
posts against the Bible being God’s word.
* God knows more than you do.
* God has made it clear that the Bible is His
word to mankind.
“and how from infancy you have known
the Holy Scriptures, which are able
to make you wise for salvation through
faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture
is God-breathed and is useful for
teaching, rebuking, correcting and
training in righteousness, so that
the servant of God may be thoroughly
equipped for every good work.”
2 Timothy 3:15-17
* The Apostle Paul wrote that up there.
* Christians are going to listen to the
Apostle Paul, and NOT listen to Zaxtres.
JAG
Scot me up Beamy.
“No the Bible is NOT God’s words.
You been lied to starting from the
Council of Nicene. A council made
up of men who decided what to put
into the Bible. If it were God’s
words, the Bible would not be the
size that it is. The Bible is a
written collection of oral stories
passed down from generation to
generation. The New Testament is
not even written by the authors
that are of the Book that they
represent. They are the accounts
of the Disciples. It is a history
book, nothing more.”___Zaxtres
______
* The Bible IS God’s words.
* 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says that all Scripture is
God-breathed and is therefore useful for teaching
and preaching and for many other good purposes.
{1} the Holy Scriptures
{2} can make you wise for salvation
{3} which is in Christ Jesus our Lord
{4} all Scripture is useful for:
{5} teaching
{6} rebuking
{7} correcting
{8} training in righteousness
{9} so that the man of God
{10} may be equipped for every god work
* God loves us.
* God has spoken to us in His word the Bible.
* His word is a Lamp and a Light to help us
successfully make our way through this life.
* Thank God for His word the Holy Bible.
THAT is how to write an encouraging post
that will actually help some other human
being.
* The very last thing on Earth that any human
being needs to hear, is that the Bible is not
the true word of God.
* The Bible tells us about the LOVE of God expressed
through the gift of His Son the Lord Jesus who died
for us on the Cross.
* And about many other truths that we all need to
know and believe.
JAG
Luke 4:6 And the devil said to Him, “I will give You all this domain and its glory; for it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish.
Christ came to give His life as a ransom for many. Not to pay the devil anything, but to satisfy God's requirement for sin.
1 Timothy 2:14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
That doesn't mean Eve was less guilty of sin. It only means she was tricked into sinning. I'm sure you would agree that being tricked into sinning is not the same as deliberately making a choice to sin.
Eve did not belong to the Devil at the beginning How did she end up with him? God made her eat? Or, the Devil is greater than God, and he made her eat? Or, she chose to eat?
Which is it?
And Adam?, who was not deceived? I ask the same questions as for Eve. It is there your answer for Eve fails to answer for Adam.
The Bible IS God’s words.
+++++++++++++++
Once again you use the Bible to argue the Bible is the word of God. That is a stupid argument. I could have a ghost writer write a book and put my name on it. Then use the words of the book to say those are my words. Yeah this is a real thing.
Okay you keep telling yourself the Bible is the word of God. Just one question who wrote the Book of Revelations found in the Bible? If you say God you are wrong because the witness wrote the Book of Revelations. So the Bible is not the word of God but the words of men who claim they were inspired by God to write the Books. The New Testament was supposedly written by the Apostles and Disciples. In their own words they say that it is not the word of God. The Book of Job tells us what God said but is not the exact words as this was an oral tradition put into text. Inspiration from is not the same as being authored by. You don’t know the history of the Bible but rather spout it like a robot. Only when you know the actual history of the Bible then and only then can you logically argue with reason the difference between Free Will and Predetermination and the using the words of the Bible is not a credible retort when that source is the very question of the debate.
Now go away.
Her sin separate her from God. The devil just happens to be on that side.
As for your second question, God didn't make Eve eat any more than Eve freely chose to eat. The devil tricked her into disobedience. At least that is what the scriptures tell us.
As for Adam, he wasn’t deceived. He made a willful choice to sin just like everyone else.
“Once again you use the Bible to argue the Bible is the word of God. That is a stupid argument. I could have a ghost writer write a book and put my name on it. Then use the words of the book to say those are my words. Yeah this is a real thing.
Okay you keep telling yourself the Bible is the word of God. Just one question who wrote the Book of Revelations found in the Bible? If you say God you are wrong because the witness wrote the Book of Revelations. So the Bible is not the word of God but the words of men who claim they were inspired by God to write the Books. The New Testament was supposedly written by the Apostles and Disciples. In their own words they say that it is not the word of God. The Book of Job tells us what God said but is not the exact words as this was an oral tradition put into text. Inspiration from is not the same as being authored by. You don’t know the history of the Bible but rather spout it like a robot. Only when you know the actual history of the Bible then and only then can you logically argue with reason the difference between Free Will and Predetermination and the using the words of the Bible is not a credible retort when that source is the very question of the debate.
Now go away.”___Zaxtres
“So the Bible is not the word of God
but the words of men who claim they
were inspired by God to write the
Books.”___Zaxtres
____________
Zaxtres,
* Thank you for your irrational rant.
* Please continue to phart against a strong North Wind.
* YOU are NOT an authority on Christianity.
YOU are NOT an authority on the Bible.
* YOU are just one more dude sitting at a keyboard
pecking away hawking his opinions.
* The Bible IS God’s word.
* 2 timothy 3:16-17 says that all Scripture is
God-breathed and is therefore useful for teaching
and preaching and for many other good purposes.
{1} the Holy Scriptures
{2} can make you wise for salvation
{3} which is in Christ Jesus our Lord
{4} all Scripture is useful for:
{5} teaching
{6} rebuking
{7} correcting
{8} training in righteousness
{9} so that the man of God
{10} may be equipped for every good work
* You sitting there pecking away on your
keyboard is NOT going to have any significant
impact on this world?
* Soon this thread will be buried forever deep
within the “bowels of the Internet” never
to be seen again.
* Your absurd illogical rants against the
Bible being God’s word are no more than
weak pharts against the wind.
* Please feel free to continue to rant
and phart against the wind to your heart’s
content.
HOWEVER, SOME KINDNESS FOR YOU , , , ,
* Why don’t you make a decision to start posting
bright cheerful optimistic encouraging messages
instead of such as that up there?
* Christianity has enough problems as it is,
without you adding to the trouble with your
illogical and irrational rants against the
Bible being God’s word.
* God knows more than you do.
* God has made it clear that the Bible is His
word to mankind. 2 Timothy 3:15-17
* The Apostle Paul wrote 2 Timothy 3:15-17
* 2 Timothy 3:15-17 is NOT going to go away
merely because you rant against it.
* Christians are going to listen to the
Apostle Paul, and NOT listen to Zaxtres.
* The Bible IS God’s words. 2 Timothy 3:15-17
HERE IT IS AGAIN:
* 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says that all Scripture is
God-breathed and is therefore useful for teaching
and preaching and for many other good purposes.
{1} the Holy Scriptures
{2} can make you wise for salvation
{3} which is in Christ Jesus our Lord
{4} all Scripture is useful for:
{5} teaching
{6} rebuking
{7} correcting
{8} training in righteousness
{9} so that the man of God
{10} may be equipped for every god work
* God loves us.
* God has spoken to us in His word the Bible.
* His word is a Lamp and a Light to help us
successfully make our way through this life.
* Thank God for His word the Holy Bible.
* Why don’t you learn how to write encouraging
posts that will actually help some other human
being? Instead of ranting against the Bible
being God’s word.
* The very last thing on Earth that any human
being needs to hear, is that the Bible is not
the true word of God.
* The Bible tells us about the LOVE of God expressed
through the gift of His Son the Lord Jesus who died
for us on the Cross.
* And about many other truths that we all need to
know and believe.
Best.
JAG
Scot me up Beamy.
___________
PS
“So the Bible is not the word of God
but the words of men who claim they
were inspired by God to write the
Books.__Zaxtres
That is False.
Questions:
Why do you care if we Christians
believe the Bible is the word of God?
How does our believing that do you any
harm?
Bible believing Christians do a lot
of good in the world because we believe
in the message of the Bible, for example
the great chapter on LOVE in 1 Cor. 13
Why do you want to destroy our belief
that the Bible is God’s word? You will
NOT succeed, but if you did succeed then
the world would be a worse place, and not
a better place.
Why do you want the world to be a worse
place?
``
``
``
“Once again you use the Bible to argue the Bible is the word of God. That is a stupid argument. I could have a ghost writer write a book and put my name on it. Then use the words of the book to say those are my words. Yeah this is a real thing.
Okay you keep telling yourself the Bible is the word of God. Just one question who wrote the Book of Revelations found in the Bible? If you say God you are wrong because the witness wrote the Book of Revelations. So the Bible is not the word of God but the words of men who claim they were inspired by God to write the Books. The New Testament was supposedly written by the Apostles and Disciples. In their own words they say that it is not the word of God. The Book of Job tells us what God said but is not the exact words as this was an oral tradition put into text. Inspiration from is not the same as being authored by. You don’t know the history of the Bible but rather spout it like a robot. Only when you know the actual history of the Bible then and only then can you logically argue with reason the difference between Free Will and Predetermination and the using the words of the Bible is not a credible retort when that source is the very question of the debate.
Now go away.”___Zaxtres
“So the Bible is not the word of
God but the words of men who
claim they were inspired by
God to write the Books.”___Zaxtres
_______
That up there is FALSE.
Here are some Bible verses that teach
that the Bible is God’s word.
1 Peter 1:23-25
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. For, “All people are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field; the grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of the LORD endures forever.” And this is the word that was preached to you.
_______________
1 Thessalonians 2:13
And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human word, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is indeed at work in you who believe.
__________
2 Peter 3:16
He {Paul} writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
___________
Acts 17:11
Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true
____________
Colossians 3:16
Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts.
NOTE: The “message of Christ” is found only
in God’s word the Bible.
__________
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
________
Isaiah 55:11
So is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
________
John 5:39-40
You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
___________
John 17:17
Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.
___________
Luke 11:28
He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.
________
Luke 24:44-49
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.
Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.
___________
Matthew 4:4
Jesus answered, It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.
_______
Revelation 1: 1- 3
The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.
_______
Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.
________
James 1: 22-25
Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.
________
2 Timothy 3:14-17
But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
___________
Also consider these:
Job 23:12
John 1:1 {The living Word speaks God’s word}
Mathew 1:1-11 {Jesus used the Holy Scriptures to resist Satan.}
Psalm 12:16
_________
The Holy Bible is the word of God.
JAG
``
``
Hey stick with a lie long enough and those that choose will believe a lie.
Read up on the Council of Nicene. Then read up on how the King James version of the Bible came into being. Read up on the countless books that never made it into the Bible and what they (the Council of Nicene) decried and did with those books.
Bah sir you lie to yourself and everyone reading this diatribe. The only thing you have to go to is the Bible which is not a source unto itself in this argument about the Bible.
Really man, you should just stop proselytizing when you cannot answer basic questions without referring to some chapter and verse. Here is question that is not in the Bible? Answer me this, how many fake Messiahs came after Jesus?
Or how about this one, what was the state of the economy like in Palestine before the birth of Jesus? After Jesus?
The Bible goes into none of that.
Here is a Bible question for you, When was the only time in the Bible Jesus tells his disciples something that is not considered a parable?
Man if you spent half the time memorizing the history beyond the Bible you would be so much more enlightened rather than portrayed as a Bible Thumper that can only spit back verse.
And speaking of verses over half the verses below sides with my argument. Paul writes his letters but his letters are not in the Bible. This is verifying Paul wrote parts of the Bible. Is Paul God? See I backed you into a corner with my last post. By saying that the disciples and apostles did not write their books then forced you to prove that they did. By doing so also proves that the Bible was not written by God but by these men. Thus proving that the Bible was not written by God, merely God inspired man to write it. There is a difference. And thus you have proven my point - the Bible was not written by God.
“Hey stick with a lie long enough and those that choose will believe a lie.
Read up on the Council of Nicene. Then read up on how the King James version of the Bible came into being. Read up on the countless books that never made it into the Bible and what they (the Council of Nicene) decried and did with those books.
Bah sir you lie to yourself and everyone reading this diatribe. The only thing you have to go to is the Bible which is not a source unto itself in this argument about the Bible.
Really man, you should just stop proselytizing when you cannot answer basic questions without referring to some chapter and verse. Here is question that is not in the Bible? Answer me this, how many fake Messiahs came after Jesus?
Or how about this one, what was the state of the economy like in Palestine before the birth of Jesus? After Jesus?
The Bible goes into none of that.
Here is a Bible question for you, When was the only time in the Bible Jesus tells his disciples something that is not considered a parable?
Man if you spent half the time memorizing the history beyond the Bible you would be so much more enlightened rather than portrayed as a Bible Thumper that can only spit back verse.
And speaking of verses over half the verses below sides with my argument. Paul writes his letters but his letters are not in the Bible. This is verifying Paul wrote parts of the Bible. Is Paul God? See I backed you into a corner with my last post. By saying that the disciples and apostles did not write their books then forced you to prove that they did. By doing so also proves that the Bible was not written by God but by these men. Thus proving that the Bible was not written by God, merely God inspired man to write it. There is a difference. And thus you have proven my point - the Bible was not written by God.”___Zaxtres
_____________
* Please continue to rant.
* Please continue to phart against the North Wind.
* This is the Internet.
* There is some of everything on Earth on the Internet.
* We have people who believe that the United States
Government is putting chemicals in our drinking
water in order to control the American population.
* We have people who believe that the United States
Government has captured aliens and has them locked up
in secret places.
* If the readers of this thread {which by now is probably
down to maybe 2 or 3}, want to believe you, then they CAN.
* You might can “reach” some of them?
* And convince them that YOU are correct?
* So “go for it.”
____________
““Hey stick with a lie long enough and those
that choose will believe a lie.”___Zaxtres
____________
Your “stick with a lie” thingy can apply to YOU.
* And it does apply to you.
* What does that mean?
* It means that if you rant AGAINST the Bible
long enough you might make a “convert.”
* You sir lie to yourself and to everyone reading this thread.
{See I can say that just as easy as you can.}
* I am not going to argue with you.
You can make your points.
I can make my points.
* You have not “backed me into a corner.”
* Why not?
* Because I am posting my points.
* And you are posting your points.
* I am happy to be as you say a “Bible thumper that
can only spit back verse.”
* I have just started a new thread on the subject
of 16 Bible verses that show the Bible to be God’s
word.
* Maybe you can come over there and continue to rant
and phart against the wind.
* Why is it pharting against the wind?
* Because there are over 2 billion Christians in the
world who believe in the Lord Jesus as our
Savior, and we know about Him FROM THE BIBLE.
* And YOU are NOT going to destroy our faith in
the Bible as God’s word.
* But you can keep trying.
* I do NOT want to silence you.
* Your rants and you pharting against the wind are
most welcome.
BY THE WAY , , ,
* How is it that this Forum allows you to continue
to post boldly AGAINST what they stand for?
* They stand for “God, Family, and Country”
* The Bible is the backbone of “God, Family, and Country.”
* And you are out here trying to DISCREDIT the Bible as
being the word of God.
* Explain how you doing THAT is going to help
“God, Family, and Country”?
* Again, why do you care if Christians want to believe
that the Bible is the word of God?
* How does our believing that harm you?
* Have you considered “playing with your Big Toe”?
I mean it would be better for humanity if you would
spend the time you spend trying to destroy the Bible
as the word of God -— playing with your Big Toe.
* Just take off your shoe.
Pull your sock off.
And grab your Big Toe and start
playing with it.
That’s harmless.
You will not damage anybody’s faith
playing with your Big Toe.
But trying to DESTROY faith in the Bible
as God’s word WILL HARM people.
So?
So grab that Big Toe , , ,
, , , LOL , , ,
Best.
JAG
Scot me up Beamy.
``
``
``
I question the need to "defend G-d" from charges of "immorality" or evil. There is no independent standard apart from G-d by which He may be "judged." Good is good and evil is evil by His decree alone.
If G-d does not exist, then nothing is objectively evil. Objective evil cannot exist unless G-d defines it. In this way G-d is absolutely essential for the existence of objective evil.
We are in this mess today because people have been looking for some "independent" secular moral code by which actions may be judged good or evil apart from G-d. No such code exists. Good and evil are defined exclusively by Divine decree and nothing else. This makes every "atheist" moral crusader a hypocrite, since without G-d there are no evils to vanquish or even problems to solve.
Please let us stop separating morality from G-d. If we all still acknowledged His sole right to define good and evil we wouldn't be in this mess today.
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