Posted on 06/10/2020 7:59:52 PM PDT by The Ignorant Fisherman
There is no, zero mention of the American continents in the Bible
Wrong
https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/study-guide/e/4998/t/the-usa-in-bible-prophecy
On the Trinity you are false - there is mention of the Trinity in the Bible - a clear one at Jesus baptism. And in addition in the book of Genesis - with the spirit of God across the waters.
Genesis 1:26
“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.”
Who’s “us” ???
There is NO secret rapture preceding a seven-year Great Tribulation; indeed the Great Tribulation Jesus predicts in the first half of the discourse has already come to pass with the destruction of the 2nd temple and the ushering in of Christ’s Kingdom
I agree and disagree. Yes, there is NO secret rapture preceding a seven year Great Tribulation. MHGinTN and his pre-trip buddies are flat out wrong and the bible does not support that theory one iota.
Yes, the destruction of the 2nd temple was a great tribulation but it was local, not on the world level and it is not the final Tribulation Jesus is talking about just before his return. That tribulation ends with the 7 last plagues.
But, thank goodness MHGinTN won’t have to deal with any of it because he will have been raptured out of this world just before it all happens, leaving Me and Cronos to deal with the Antichrist (sarc)
Preterist nonsense. Why the obsession?
We see the spirit that is in you, mocking and trying to bait responses so you can spew your version of the false teachings. You and Cronos deserve each other, he’s still spittling that false ‘secret rapture’ lie (when the moment happens, you and he will know it was not a secret to those God removes from this wrath target).
Well certainly if you like your doctrine you can keep your doctrine. No shortage of consensus out there.
I’ll go ahead and stick with real math. It got men to the Moon and back.
I was showing that YOU were right and Cronos was wrong. I was agreeing with you.
We see the spirit that is in you, mocking and trying to bait responses so you can spew your version of the false teachings. You and Cronos deserve each other, he’s still spittling that false ‘secret rapture’ lie (when the moment happens, you and he will know it was not a secret to those God removes from this wrath target).
Your people told you the Antichrist was already here. (they are my people too). There goes your whole pre-trib rapture theory down the drain.
2 Thess 2:
…10and with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. 11For this reason, God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie, 12in order that judgment will come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness.
Unfortunately, right now this describes you, Cronos, and many others.
Ah okay, I see it was an earlier quote from the other poster and then a comment based from that.
Phew, good thing I don’t get excited (or offended) about who believes what. I couldn’t keep track anyway, but that means these sorts of mix-ups can happen.
Thanks much for the clarification!
Unless I’m missing something, NOT having a rapture makes no sense. Would you tell me what happens to the Church when Christ Jesus returns to rule and reign in His Kingdom of Israel, head of all the nations? Do we suddenly become glorified and not face death? Or, do we simply live amongst those who made it through the tribulation as the same human beings and in the same bodies as all that remain? Do we, as members of Christ’s Body, die, only to be resurrected? There will be new births in the Kingdom. Will they have the same un-glorified body as we have today? How will they be saved eternally during the period of the Kingdom on earth? If they are saved and then die, are they resurrected on earth and live with us who would still be here? Will Christians die and go to heaven during the time of the Kingdom on earth? When do Christians alive at Christ’s 2nd coming receive their glorified bodies? I simply can’t see that there is NOT a need for a rapture. Please help me understand your position.
I read through all the posts on this thread and did not see any treatment of the passages in question:
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
What is your understanding of “we say unto you by the word of the Lord?” And, of course, I’m specifically asking how you interpret “caught up” in verse 17. What do “clouds” and “air” mean to you in this passage?
I’m trying to understand how anything else could be made of the text, but I can’t find a way to make it say what it does not.
Cronos: “Rapturists make a biblically false - a preposterously large time miscalculation by saying “Church age” - whereas in reality we are living since 69 AD in the Kingdom of God’s age - with Christ as the living temple. “
Do you believe that Christ will reign over an earthly temple in future, Cronos?
Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
Does the passage concerning Enoch’s being taken mean that he was removed from earth and didn’t die? Or does it really mean something else other than what it states?
Respectfully,
SC
1 Thessalonians 5:9-10 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him.
While we don’t know the specifics, such as the day and hour, we can discern the general times, or age, or era, as evidenced by the signs Jesus said would coincide with His return.
There are things in place now that make this being the end times far more likely than previous eras.
The technology needed for the ruthless control of the human race by a one world government and one world religion exists. Israel is again a nation with Jerusalem as its recognized capital.
When Jesus came the first time, those in the know should have been aware that His coming was imminent, even though they would have not know the specifics. Same with His second coming.
Thanks, metmom! One of the most beautiful passages of the Bible.
It is very reassuring to know that God is not going to condemn those who are in Christ Jesus. We have been judged already when we placed our faith in Him just as Jesus told us.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
Pre Trib vs Post Trib Rapture SC (if you want to use the word rapture, I’m fine with that). There is no Pre Trib rapture described anywhere in the bible. The antichrist power is already here and has been for over a thousand years.
http://aloha.net/~mikesch/psttrib.htm
This was definitely not a "local" tribulation
The Jesus-movement-Jews were:
This WAS the GREAT tribulation - the Jesus movement Jewish sect was nearly crushed by this two-way blow from the beast from the land (the Jewish authorities) and the beast from the sea (the Roman empire)
And if we look at Matthew 24
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the world as a witness to all nations,[h] and then the end will come.24:21 talks about the Great Tribulation - note that in 24:14 "this gospel of the Kingdom will be preached throughout the world" -- link this to Romans 1:8
The Great Tribulation.[i] 15 “When you see the desolating abomination[j] spoken of through Daniel the prophet standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then those in Judea must flee[k] to the mountains, 17 [l]a person on the housetop must not go down to get things out of his house, 18 a person in the field must not return to get his cloak. 19 Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days. 20 [m]Pray that your flight not be in winter or on the sabbath, 21 [n]for at that time there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will be. 22 And if those days had not been shortened, no one would be saved; but for the sake of the elect they will be shortened. 23 If anyone says to you then, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 False messiahs and false prophets will arise, and they will perform signs and wonders so great as to deceive, if that were possible, even the elect. 25 Behold, I have told it to you beforehand. 26 So if they say to you, ‘He is in the desert,’ do not go out there; if they say, ‘He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.[o] 27 For just as lightning comes from the east and is seen as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
The Coming of the Son of Man. 29 [p]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days,
the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light,
and the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 And then the sign of the Son of Man[q] will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels[r] with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
8 First, I give thanks[f] to my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is heralded throughout the world.and ditto for Colossians 1:5-6 = "in the whole world it is bearing fruit and growing"
The early Church KNEW that the gospel had been preached to the entire civilized world before 70 AD.
Clement of Rome was bishop when the signs of the Olivet discourse were being fulfilled (from 67 to 73 AD) and he wrote that "Paul and Peter had been martyred, but not before they taught righteousness to the whole world and came to the extreme limit of the west
The desolating sacrilege had been the legions marching under the banner of an unclean animal (the eagle)
jesus also clearly said that 21 [n]for at that time there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will be. -- and that WAS the great tribulation from 64 to 70 AD - when the Jesus-movement was hit by their own Jewish authorities (the Jesus movement was still a Jewish sect) and by secular authorities -- imagine if you will a Waco scenario with the full might of the US military AND if you added in a religious dimension to this, both turned on a Waco with no weaponry.
The Neronian persecution nearly destroyed Christ's Church
That was the greatest tribulation the Church will ever see.
Phillie Who’s “us” ???
Us is God - the Trinity.
first look at the seal of God - given in Rev 7:3 “Do not damage the land or the sea or the trees until we put the seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.
This is the "mark" that was mentioned in the Letter to the Church in Philadelphia.
This is linked to how the hebrews were protected in Egypt - the "sign" or Tau is in the form of a cross - so the sign of the cross is the symbol of those sealed by God
popularly people think about the mark of the beast but GOD's mark - the mark of the Lamb is far more important in the book of the Apocalypse - it is referred to in the letter to Philadelphia and in 7:3 - and then in 14:1, the redeemed 144,000 all have been marked by God.
Finally in 22:4 we see that in Heaven God's faithful "servants shall worship Him; they shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads
The sealing of the saints is taken from Ezekiel 9 "Go through the city, through Jerusalem, and put a mark upon the foreheads of the men who sign and groan over all the abominations that are committed in it ... touch no one upon whom is th emark - Ezek 9:4-5 -- the word for mark in Hebrew is Taw - a Cross
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in Contrast look at 13:16 It forced all the people, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to be given a stamped image on their right hands or their foreheads, and 16 - we see that the mark of the beast is Satan's parody of the sign of the cross (just as the beast "who looked like a lamb" is Satan's mockery of Christ, the true Lamb)
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