Posted on 03/31/2020 5:36:53 PM PDT by marshmallow
Cdl. Christoph Schönborn calls for patience to heal this 'wound'
VIENNA (ChurchMilitant.com) - In the midst of the global Wuhan virus pandemic that has stricken hundreds of thousands across the world, an Austrian prelate is keeping the question of women's ordination and a female diaconate on a front burner.
Cardinal Christoph Schönborn of Vienna said "the question of the role of women in the Church" remains "open," calling "women's invisibility in the Church" akin to a "wound" during a March 22 press hour on Austrian national television.
Schönborn added he worries that men will dominate in all world religions, questioning what this could mean in view of global changes in society. "How will religions deal with this?" he asked. "We have to ask ourselves this question."
According to Schönborn, Pope Francis sidestepped the issue of female priests in Querida Amazonia, his apostolic exhortation stemming from October's Amazon Synod, and focused instead on ecological questions, "because the death of the Amazon rainforest is the death of the whole world."
But the cardinal said he could understand that many were disappointed by the pope's post-synodal writing, and is calling for "further patience" from proponents.
The Austrian cardinal, however, found consolation in the fact that Francis did address some aspects of women's leadership in the Church praising, for example, the "strong and generous women" who make an "indispensable contribution" to the Church and society in the Amazon region, confirming that the topic of "women in Church leadership positions" remains at the table.
(Excerpt) Read more at churchmilitant.com ...
Ping
I had no idea that the state of the Church in Austria was in such a state until I heard it from Austrians themselves; I didn’t think it possible that the Austrian clergy could be further off the rails than the American clergy but now I most certainly believe it.
They will have a hard time trying to explain away what the CDF declared to be an infallible statement by St. John Paul II, that it is impossible for the Church to ordain women into Holy Orders. (Infallible by virtue of the Ordinary Magisterium holding this truth from the beginning, and by St John Paul II’s definitive statement on the same, binding all in Faith.
To deny this truth is to risk being a heretic.
NOT!
The souls of the sick are the primary concern.
The priest will administer the Sacrament of the Sick to them.
Pretty well all of Western Europe is worse off than the U.S.
The U.S. is certainly divided, but it has some very good spots, comparatively speaking.
Captain von Trapp is spinning in his grave.
If subsequent popes say the opposite, are they bound by the previous pope’s ruling? Does one infallible person override his infallible predecessor? Would God allow that?
It’s technically not possible to make an infallible statement that opposes another infallible statement. Infallibility in the Church is a definitive assertion that something is Divinely revealed either directly or indirectly. It places the matter into the realm of Faith.
If the Church has asserted that by Divine revelation it cannot ordain woman, then one cannot say later that by Divine revelation it can ordain woman. All new Divine revelation ended with the death of St John the Apostle, the last of the Apostles to die so we cannot claim new revelations as justification. A corollary to that is the Church can only make definitive declarations regarding what was Divinely revealed in the Apostolic age.
This infallibility is guaranteed by Christ and protected by the Holy Spirit and God cannot contradict Himself, nor does reality change.
What seems to be the case here is an assertion that St John Paul II’s declaration is not infallible. By not accepting the reality of infallibility by virtue of the Ordinary Magisterium, they are trying to force the Pope to make use of the Extraordinary Magisterium. But the Pope simply has to stand his ground.
As such, Pope Francis has reasserted St John Paul II’s teaching, and I believe that assertion is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit at work. The Holy Spirit wont allow a Pope to contradict that teaching.
One of my own beliefs about Vatican II, St. John Paul II, and Pope Benedict XVI is that all attempted to undo some of the misconceptions that arose after Vatican I about Papal infallibility. The misconception is the belief that only those things declared to be true by the exercise of the Extraordinary Magisterium are to be believed.
VII tried to restore the balance and make it clear that most of the teachings of the Church are handed down and protected by the exercise of the Ordinary Magisterium. The two Popes I mentioned seemed to have endeavored to propagate that the Pope can simply assert what has always been held, without having to make an Ex Cathedra statement.
In the case of this specific topic, the Pope used language that sounded like an exercise of the Extraordinary Magisterium even using the formula articulated by Vatican I, but the CDF stated that it was an act of the Ordinary Magisterium.
The two Popes I mentioned may have been too optimistic, but I believe, from an eschatological point of view, their (what seems to me) attempt to reserve the use of the Extraordinary Magisterium for special cases is appropriate. Catholics have to get back into the mindset that the Ordinary Magisterium is also infallible, and the Pope, in confirming his brethren, simply has to definitively restate a truth in order to end debate.
Disclaimer: This whole statement of mine regarding infallibility, per se, is based on recollections from previous readings. I haven’t gone back to sources to verify everything, but I’m reasonable certain it comports well with what Ludwig Ott (composer of a lengthy work on all that the Church teaches) and Vatican II teach. When I use terms like “it seems to me” I am stating my own opinion.
Thank you.
I am familiar with the claim of papal infallibility.
‘I am also familiar with how powerful people “do their own thing” or want to put their stamp on history. What good is it to be pope if all the good things have been decided? Also i would expect there is a practical consideration, maybe if the priesthood is greatly reduced in numbers. Lastly, even the pope is influenced by his experience and education and being human.
The church has made major changes through the centuries. It wouldn’t;’t shock or surprise me iff women became priests. maybe in this century IO remember people leaving the church when when administered communion to the ill and then stood by the priest to form a second line for communion.
Popes will do as they see fit and find a way to rationalize it.
My money is on the future change. No way to prove it. So my bet is safe. : )
Best wishes.
Schonborn, Pope JP II, Michael Waldstein, Hans Urs Van Balthasar, all phenomenologists. I could not have predicted that this crowd would have fallen for the fallacy that women-need-to-be-like-men to have worth.
But if God is constantly changing and revealing Himself in new and different ways to these phenomenologists, then it is not a stretch for these type of minds to fall for the latest novelty.
It was the German philosophers who have done so much damage to the Western mind, confusing knowledge that is becoming with being which does not change. Evolution is a vain attempt to assert that being is becoming. Yet we have never seen a single species arise out of chaos.
Christ describes His relationship to the Church as that of a Bridegroom to bride. The priest, acting in persona Christi, ie, in the person of Christ, has that same relationship to his local Church, the parish. Christ is male, the priest has to be male. The whole of Sacramental theology comes apart otherwise.
What CDL Schönborn holds is heretical, pure and simple. It would be seriously unwise spiritually to adhere to his pretensious optimism. By what he states, he would even deny that the Pope speaking ex cathedra could declare only men can be ordained. He is denying Divine revelation about the Sacrament of Orders, denying the infallibility of the Pope speaking ex cathedra, and denying the infallibility of the Ordinary Magisterium. His soul is in serious jeopardy - similar to that of Arius of the Arian Heresy.
The Church has declared that it is ontologically impossible for women to be ordained to Catholic and Orthodox Holy Orders. It simply can’t happen. If CDL Schönborn were to attempt an ordination of a female tomorrow, it would be invalid and he would be excommunicated for simulating a Sacrament. In this case the excommunication would be public and self-manifest.
Anyway, this is for those predisposed to conforming their beliefs to the Church’s teachings. I’m simply espousing what the Church teaches on the subject.
I am familiar with that I am also familiar with power and history and a student of the future. The church has had major changes and it will again. It is inevitable or it will whither and die.
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