"Second Coming" = [הביאה השנייה] = 403
Posted on 12/11/2019 5:01:47 PM PST by grumpa
Searching the Scriptures over many years to understand eschatology, I have become persuaded that there is a major point most modern Christians miss about Bible prophecy. Jesus said that He would COME on “clouds of heaven with power and great glory,” with angels and trumpets, and with cosmic disturbances of the created order (Matthew 24:29-34; etc.). I dare say that not one Christian in a 100 understands the Old Testament context of these statements. Frankly, what most Christians understand about prophecy they have picked up in the echo chamber without having ever checked it against God’s Word.
If Jesus was to “come” FROM HEAVEN as the DIVINE SON OF GOD, AFTER HIS ASCENSION and GLORIFICATION, how would it look? How would the original audience have understood these prophecies? Wouldn’t they associate Jesus’ “Second Coming” in some way with the COMINGS OF YAHWEH in the Old Testament? The Second Coming passages in the New Testament are often about Jesus’ soon JUDGMENT, i.e. WRATH, upon the apostate Jews living in his day (Matthew 3:7; 19:28; 21:33-45; 22:1-14; 23:29-39; 26:63-66; 21:1-24, 29-33; 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16; Revelation 6:12-17; etc.). This was to punish the Jews for their sins and failure to accept Him as Messiah. Note that Jesus judges like the Father per John 5:21-27.
Would Jesus have to be physically present on earth to effect his divine judgment? The Greek noun most often used for Jesus “Second Coming” is Parousia. It is used sixteen times in the New Testament about Jesus’ “return.” It literally means “presence.” It does not demand a literal physical-bodily appearance. It can correctly be understood to be Jesus’ EFFECTUAL DIVINE PRESENCE. Now think about this: Isn’t Jesus present with us even now, effecting change and judging the world?
The language of “coming on a glory cloud” in the Old Testament is idiomatic apocalyptic phraseology about Yahweh’s “COMINGS— often IN JUDGMENT against his enemies. You simply cannot understand New Testament eschatology unless you grasp this context.
I list below two categories of pertinent Old Testament activities of God. Notice how clouds are often described as God’s figurative abode and mode of travel. Also notice how the Bible uses metaphoric language of cosmic and earthly disturbances to describe intrusions of God on earth. This is called “Hebraic apocalyptic language.” It is poetic/metaphoric language, that is non-literal language to explain literal events. People did not literally see Yahweh, but saw the EFFECTS of his presence in various ways. To get a full concept of a divine coming, please take the time to study these passages before commenting on this post:
1. COMINGS IN JUDGMENT. Scholars agree that most of these judgments have already occurred. In parentheses are the targets of God’s righteous judgment. 2 Samuel 22:8-15 (David’s enemies); Psalm 18:7-15 (David’s enemies); 50:3 (God’s people); 68:1-8 (God’s enemies); 96:9-13 (God’s enemies); 97:2-5 (God’s enemies); 98:9 (the world); Isaiah 13:6-13 (Babylon); 19:1-22 (Egypt); 24:1-23 (covenant breakers of Jerusalem); 26:21 (sinners); 29:3-6 (Jerusalem); 34:1-17 (Edom); 66:15-22 (the great judgment); Jeremiah 4:1-28 (Judah and Jerusalem); Ezekiel 30:3-19 (Egypt); 32:7-8 (Egypt/Pharaoh); Hosea 8:1-14 (Israel); Joel 2:1-16, 31 (against Israel, ref. Acts 2); 3:15-16 (the nations); Amos 5:16-25 (Israel); 8:1-9 (Israel); Micah 1:2-16 (Israel and Judah); Nahum 1:2-6 (Nineveh); Zephaniah 1:2-18 (Judah, Jerusalem, and Judah’s enemies); Zechariah 14:2-11 (Jerusalem).
2. COMING/COMING DOWN—not necessarily in judgment, but to display his glory or to effect change in other ways. Genesis 11:5-8; 18:21; Exodus 3:8; 19:9-11; 34:5; Leviticus 16:2; Numbers 11:16-25; Deuteronomy 4:11-14; 5:22; 33:2; 2 Chronicles 5:13-14; Psalm 104:3; 144:5-7; Isaiah 30:26; 31:4; 35:1-10; 40:3-10; 60:19-20; 64:1-3; Ezekiel 1:28; Daniel 7:13; Zechariah 1:16; 9:14.
Now, compare the language to the New Testament: Matthew 24:30; 26:64; Acts 1:9-11; 2 Peter 3:7-12; Hebrews 12:22-29; Revelation 1:7; 6:12-17. Given that there are over 100 passages in the New Testament that say that Jesus would “come/return” while some of those living in the first century were still alive (Matthew 10:23; 16:27-28; 23:29-39; 24:34; Revelation 1:1-3; 22:6-20; etc.), does this study give you a different perspective of “coming on clouds?”
While it is a minority view today, many Christians down through the ages have not understood passages about Jesus’ Parousia be a future literal physical-bodily appearance. Rather, they have understood it as a “coming in judgment” in AD 70.
I recommend this 20-minute video by Rev. Paul White that discusses this, entitled “The Shaking of Heaven and Earth”:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQcLcstPxMk&feature=youtu.be&t=443
I also commend to the reader this 4-part series on “What Is a Coming of God” by Riley O’Brien Powell:
https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=D3BD424B0B25B83F!10868&app=Word
According to 2 Thess. it will mean climate change.
Some of the conditions described in the Revelation could match up to global cooling.
But more to the point of the op, Revelation has different sections, the first, the letters to the churches, deals with things that are or were about to be.
The second deal with future events.
When the Revelation was written the destruction of 70 AD had already happened.
Here it is good to remember that there has not been just one day of the Lord where something of monumental importance happens.
I’m sure we will understand everything on the way up.
i suppose what I mean is ... more important is faith. to understand, is a man thing. He asks us to come to him with the faith of a child. not understanding.
Jesus replied, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by His own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight. They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.” Acts 1: 7-11
bkmk
Many people don’t know that the late date for Revelation is from a single ambiguous statement by Ireneaus in about AD 160. So we have to study what Revelation itself says about the dating. In my article I list about a dozen reasons why the book was written before AD 70:
"Second Coming" = [הביאה השנייה] = 403
The most useful and important thing to know regarding the Revelation is that Jesus will keep HIS even from the hour of testing which is coming. And the second thing to know is that Jerusalem will be the center of God's attention as He progressively pours out HIS wrath upon the unbelieving Earth dwellers.
While it is a minority view today, many Christians down through the ages
Seems like you’re way off base. Jesus right now is seated at the right had of God In bodily form. He’s not here.
The evidence of when Revelation was written points to a date under Nero around 68 AD, not a date under Emperor Domition. The proponents of a late date hold to the testimony of one second-hand witness who also said that Jesus lived into his fifties. Hardly reliable. Other church fathers only quoted him.
In my extensive research, I have come to the conclusion that Revelation speaks to historical events. From a surface review, from early in the book to late, it specifies numerous times in the clearest of language that the events were soon to come. So, either John through the revelation given by Jesus didn’t know when the events would happen, purposely misled the recipients of the letter, or he knew exactly when they would occur and can be held to his word. I hold to the latter.
To the subject of this blog, I would have to agree that John lived to see the “coming of Christ”, and event that he wrote about in the last chapter of his gospel. The other gospel writers had long sections regarding the Olivet Discourse, John omits it. I believe that Revelation is that discourse in much further detail. The elements match extremely closely.
I also agree with others that we’ll know more clearly upon leaving this earth. There’s no reason to debate heavily. Yet, I would agree with the premise that has been made that a fulfilled prophesy is much more powerful than an unfulfilled one. I find joy in knowing that what was promised by Daniel, Jesus, and John actually occurred in the manner and in the timeframe as it specified would occur: within one generation (40 years) from Jesus’ ministry.
You might give Luke twenty-one a read, then go to Matthew 24. there are sigbificant differenced between the Temple Discourse and the Olivet.
There has been much confusion between his first and second advents.
What’s funny (I’m not being flippant though) is that it’s a paradox because everyone could benefit from a second opinion.
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