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To: Mrs. Don-o
LOL. You can't prove that by asserting it. Not even by asserting it repeatedly!

Yet that is what is evidenced in the NT.

On the other hand, the ordinary rules of evidence would support believers one earth communicating with believers in heaven, and heavenly persons acting as intercessors.

Ordinary rules of evidence? Seriously?

You have no evidence for your claim.

This is why Rome has to have a patron saint for seemingly everything much as the Roman Empire had a god/goddess for everything.

Jesus is the only mediator between man and God,

Except in Roman Catholicism where Mary has been accorded the title of Mediatrix.

but it's wrong to think we shouldn't ask our fellow Christians to pray for us. We do well to ask the intercession of those Christians in heaven, who are now completely sanctified, because the prayer of a righteous man "is powerful and effectual." (James 5:16).

And again...as evidenced in the NT these are people on earth.

The Christian departed are still --- and more than ever --- members of the living Christ, and we who are in communion with Christ are in communion with them.

Again another false assertion that somehow the prayer of a departed believer is more effective than a believer here on earth.

And what should really be of concern to the Roman Catholic is how do they even know who is or is not in Heaven.

From what I've gathered on these forums the bulk of Roman Catholics are still in purgatory.

However, all this continues to illustrate a lack of faith/trust on the part of the Roman Catholic in the words of revealed/inspired Scripture.

I think a lot of this goes back to the medieval period writings depicting Jesus as the mean ol' judge and Mary being the benevolent, caring mother.

Recall when the disciples asked Jesus to teach them to pray He instructed them to pray to the Father. Not Moses. Not Abraham. Not Mary.

Consider, as Elsie has noted before, how many prayers a day Mary would have to handle IF all of the estimated 1.3b RCs said a prayer a day.

She has to process the language of every person on earth.

She has to perfectly and accurately hear, understand and intervene for each prayer offered.

1.3 billion Catholics/86,400 seconds in a day = 15,197 prayers a second Mary has to be able to understand and answer if every Roman Catholic said one prayer a day to Mary.

Mary has been elevated to have to capabilities of the Holy Spirit. Indeed, I'd venture to say she's replaced the Holy Spirit in Roman Catholicism.

26In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; 27and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. Romans 8:26-27

*****

Can the believer have confidence in their prayers to God?

You betcha.

Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. Hebrews 4:16

In Him and through faith in Him we may enter God's presence with boldness and confidence. Eph 3:12

14This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him. 1 John 5:14-15

66 posted on 10/20/2019 10:28:55 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone
I read what you said about the Communion of Saints, and I thank you for it. While interesting, it shows certain gaps about what that communion actually entails.

There is nothing in the NT stating that the saints in heaven are no longer in communion with Christ, and therefore no longer in communion with us.

Do you realize that the members of the Body love each other and share spiritual gifts? Do you think death is strong enough to stop us from loving and sharing, when we are with Christ in heaven?

Surely not.

If you understood that, you would understand about Mary, whose interventions on our behalf are a consequence of her being a member of Christ's Body, which we are as well. Or do you say she is not?

But that's the key thing. Mary is *not* a rival to Christ, a competitor to Christ, a peer to Christ, an equivalent to Christ, or a mediator "by the side of" Christ.

She is *in* Christ and Christ is in her. As in you. As in me. As in the Church. As in all the saint, both in this world and in the world to come.

Is this audacious? Probably even more audacious than you realize. Because you can say, like Mary can say, with the Apostle Paul:

"I am crucified with Christ,
nevertheless I live;
yet not I,
but Christ liveth in me.
And the life which I now live
in the flesh,
I live by the faith
of the Son of God,
who loved me
and gave Himself for me."

67 posted on 10/20/2019 2:17:20 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Nevertheless, I live: yet not 'I', but Christ lives in me.")
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