[Catholic Caucus] De Mattei: But does the Pope believe in Jesus Christ the Man-God?

Rorate Caeli ^ | October 13, 2019 | Roberto de Mattei

[ebb tide]

[Catholic Caucus] De Mattei: But does the Pope believe in Jesus Christ the Man-God?

Roberto de Mattei 

Radio Roma Libera.org

October 13, 2019

We cannot remain silent about this unbelievable episode, which many of you are certainly aware of. The following: 

Eugenio Scalfari, former director of La Repubblica published an article last Tuesday in which he writes: “Those who have had the fortune of meeting and conversing with him in utmost cultural confidence, the way I have several times, know that Pope Francis conceives the Christ as Jesus of Nazareth,  man, not God incarnate. Once incarnated, Jesus ceases to be God and becomes man until His death on the cross.” 

So a very well-known journalist asserts in one of the most widely-read Italian newspapers that Pope Francis does not believe in the Divinity of Jesus Christ. If this was true, Pope Francis would be a formal heretic, like the Arians, the Ebionites and the Socinians. 

Scalfari adds that when he happened to talk to him about it, Pope Francis had said: “I am the proven proof that Jesus of Nazareth, once He became man, even if a man of exceptional virtue, was not God at all.” This sentence repeats the heresy but adds this idea: that the proof that Jesus Christ is not the Son of God comes from the fact that the Pope, namely the Vicar of Christ, doesn’t believe in His Divinity.

Faced with the enormity of this, the Holy See should have reacted with indignation. We would have expected a communiqué that said: “Dr. Scalfari is a liar and a manipulator, as the Pope has never ever, not even remotely said or thought anything close to what he attributes to him.  The Pope is  the Vicar of Christ and Jesus Christ, Founder of the Catholic Church, is True God and True Man, with no possible deformations.” 

There was a retraction, but because of its ambiguity and weakness it has even aggravated the situation. 

The Director of the Holy See Press Office, Matteo Bruni says: “As already stated on other occasions, the words that Dr. Scalfari attributes  - in inverted commas - to the Holy Father during his conversations with him  - cannot be considered a faithful account of what was exactly said, but they represent, rather, a personal free interpretation of what he heard, as appears completely evident from what was written today regarding the Divinity of Jesus Christ.  

Firstly: if Scalfari, when speaking with the Pope distorts his words, why does the Pope continue  to talk to him and at any rate treat him with deference as a serious and trustworthy journalist? 

Secondly: it’s not enough to say that Scalfari’s words “cannot be considered a faithful account” of his conversation with the Pope. It has to be said that it was an absolutely false account, which overturns the Pope’s thought, deforms his words by making him say things contrary to what he thinks. 

Thirdly: what does it mean that  Scalfari’s words “represent, rather, a personal free interpretation of what he heard”? A personal and free interpretation? 

Neither Scalfari nor anyone else is free to interpret  the words of the Vicar of Christ how they want to, as if there were a plurality of possible interpretations. The Truth of Jesus Christ, True God and True Man does not admit any interpretations: it is one and only one. 

The retraction, in short, is not clear, it is not categorical, it is not solemn and lacks a proclamation of the opposing truth. And Scalfari may have exaggerated, but it is difficult to imagine  he invented everything. A dark shadow remains. Doubt remains that, in the secret of his heart, Pope Francis really thinks what Scalfari says he does.

We have reached the point of having to ask the Pope for a public profession of the Catholic Faith. May he do it clearly with no duplicity. 

We need to know with absolute certainty whether the Pope believes or  not that Jesus Christ is True God and True Man. 

Source:https://www.radioromalibera.org/cultura-cattolica/analisi-e-commenti/ma-il-papa-crede-in-gesu-cristo-uomo-dio/

Translation: Contributor Francesca Romana

[ebb tide]

[ebb tide]

Ping

[Don Corleone]

This stuff is really going off the rails. I never had much for the Jesuits but this is erasing what I did have.

[Amendment10]

Titus 1:15-16 comes to mind with misguided Jesuit Pope Francis.

Insights welcome.

[Marchmain]

Scalfari did not report Francis said, “I am the proof... “. He said, “That is...” - ‘ THAT’ referring to 2 gospel passages they had been discussing. Francis was referencing the gospel (not his papacy) as the very proof of Jesus not being divine!

[Marchmain]

that shoe fits

[Big Red Badger]

Frances to Reaffirm
The Diety of Jesus
during Christ’s
Walk on Earth.
.
Fair enough.

[ebb tide]

You got a source?

[FamiliarFace]

It seems to me that I read something like this several months ago, where Bergoglio spoke to this same journalist in confidence, and the journalist publishes what he thinks Bergoglio said on that topic. It’s always a departure from Catholic teaching, and yet, the excuse is the same, that the journalist is free to give his interpretation of the discussion,

As an example of how to clarify when someone misinterprets your words, check out how Trump responded to Schiff’s misinformation. Trump was unequivocal in his response, asserting that he said nothing of the sort. If Bergoglio was really misquoted, the Vatican should respond with a clear and unequivocal reply, yet does not.

Satan likes to confuse. This guy who is at the helm of the Church is a total fraud. I remain convinced that Benedict is still our one and only Pope.

[rdcbn]

Vintage Francis.

He cleverly crafts ambitious statements and then works through operatives and surrogates to get his views out while maintaining plausible deniability to avoid the consequences of his acts

This was most likely a coordinated effort.

Using a famous 94 year old atheist to act as oracle Is very clever. He has credibility with many but no credibility with the faithful and he can always claim a senior moment if he needs to back track

The Francis is devious genius when it come to subversion

[ebb tide]

Satan likes to confuse.

Amazon Synod Report: ‘I (Francis) Want the Confusion’

[BusterDog]

He’s a Progressive, he can do and say whatever he wants. He can then turn around and say he didn’t do it or say it if need be.

[livius]

Sono means both I am and they are in Italian. In the longer quote, Francis had just cited Jesus’ words in the Garden and on the Cross, and said « they are the reason I do not believe he was God but just an extremely good man.”

This mistake (I instead of they) seems to have been made only in the initial English translation, which was a machine translation.

I read elsewhere on a Spanish site that this is not an uncommon heresy among Jesuits, btw.

[ebb tide]

Thanks for the background info.

[ebb tide]

...he can do and say whatever he wants. He can then turn around and say he didn’t do it or say it if need be.

He is a Peronist; a pathological liar.

[Big Red Badger]

“A Faithful,,,”
.
You’re post got
Zonked.
CC is touchy that way
FRiend.

[Marchmain]

Thanks, yes. I’ve read 4 translstions, several times, from Cath sources. The first that came out almost immediately was computerized. The second was by a known good translator of vatican stuff, forgot name. Third agreed with first 2 and contained gospel refs. 4th is this one, seems Mattei has misinterpreted from a mistake in trans, surprisingly.

Jesuits hold to the Historical Jesus viewpoint. Not divine. I don’t say ‘believe’ because it takes no faith to acknowledge a human being existed historically.

[Marchmain]

Interesting, the 2 gospel passages (’cup pass’ and ‘forsaken’) both seem to prove Jesus is fully human, not that he’s NOT divine...? Am I on track?

[Rummyfan]

Hand up I can answer this. No.