Posted on 09/20/2019 9:01:36 AM PDT by pastorbillrandles
Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” ( John 6:28-29)
Salvation cannot be obtained by our personal merit. Thank God , because there is not one of us who could ever merit salvation. We cannot earn it, nor can we who have received the gift, ever lose it due to lack of merit. The scriptures make it obvious, “By the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight…”.
None of us can earn our salvation, nor can we in anywise put God in debt to us, all that He gives is freely given, it is grace. Salvation is Grace, undeserved favor.
If we couldn’t do anything to earn it, neither can we forfeit it by what we do. I do not believe that there is any particular sin that a believer can do which would cost him his salvation.
I cannot emphasize these blessed and simple truths enough, because those of us who set out the case against ‘unconditional assurance’ , (ie Once Saved Always Saved) are always accused of preaching ” good works”, or works based salvation.
Thank God for scriptures like Ephesians 2:8-10,
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. ( Ephesians 2:8-10)
There is nothing I could ever do to earn my salvation, nor to lose it, nor to add to it or take away from it, thank God. Therefore there is nothing I can personally boast in, all of the glory for my salvation goes to Jesus, who,“…has Loved us and bought us from our sins with his own blood”.(Revelation 1:5)
Salvation is not unconditional however. There is one, and only one condition, and that is that we must believe. “He that believes…shall have eternal life”. “This is the Work, that you believe on Him whom the Father has sent”.
Over and over again, we are told by the Apostles that we must believe to be saved. All the Father requires is belief, steadfast, loyal faith. He knows we are weak, unsteady, liable to sin, fall and defect, yet all he requires is belief.
Is the requirement to believe, in the bible a “one time” experience, or is belief seen as an ongoing loyalty which sustaines to the very end, (the goal) of Salvation ?
Popular Bible teacher Charles Stanley presents a very common misconception about saving Faith when He assures people,
Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy.” (Stanley Charles, Eternal Security- Can You Be sure? Thomas Nelson pg 93)
The Apostles never taught anything like that. Instead they taught believers to “Hold fast the profession of their hope … to the end…”
But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. ( Hebrews 3:6)
The danger to the soul, according to the teaching of Hebrews , is ‘unbelief’. The example from the Old Testament was the incident with the 12 spies. All of Israel heard the gospel of the land flowing with milk and honey. All of them rejoiced, until they came to Kadesh Barnea, where they saw the Giants.
From then on, only two out of that entire whole truly believed! The rest fell short of entering into God’s rest, because they cast aside their confidence, in unbelief.
For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; ( Hebrews 3:14)
What does this say about people now, who once believed passionately in Christ and the gospel, but who no longer “hold fast”? I know people who set out believing in Christ, but who no longer maintain faith. Are they still saved? As we pointed out in the last message, “whoever goes on believing shall be saved…” , not whoever ever believed at one time!
Saving Faith is not mere mental assent to a set of propositions. It is an ongoing commitment of a loyalty to a Revelation from God, much like the vows at a wedding. it is “faithfulness”, a response to what God has done and revealed. Jesus called it “abiding in the vine” in John 15.
Neither Jesus or the Apostles ever held forth anything similar to Charles Stanley’s proposition that one can be saved on a temporary belief, which one eventually defects from. Believers “go on believing” whatever it takes. If that belief calls for self renunciation, so be it. When the belief requires personal repentance, true believers repent. None of those things are “works” they are simply elements of the one and only condition God has set on salvation, Faith.
Bkmk
So I accept Jesus, and then I can Do anything I want.?
Hi oldbill...read the article, I say nothing of the sort...All I am saying is that true , ongoing faith is what God requires. Doing sin is an act of unbelief... continuing in sin is unbelief as a lifestyle, at some point true faith is defected from by those who continue in sin...
Hi oldbill...read the article, I say nothing of the sort...All I am saying is that true , ongoing faith is what God requires. Doing sin is an act of unbelief... continuing in sin is unbelief as a lifestyle, at some point true faith is defected from by those who continue in sin...
If faithfulness is the condition for salvation after being saved, how unfaithful can you be before you lose your salvation? How faithful must you be to maintain your salvation? What sin guarantees a loss of salvation? What sin is OK to do that will allow you to maintain your salvation? These are very important questions in your Soteriology in order for someone to know they are saved.
are you arguing for a “faithless salvation”? Or an “unfaithful salvation”? As long as a believer ‘goes on believing” he goes on having eternal life. As long as the brand abides in the vine he may bear fruit...as long as one continues on the narrow way, after passing through the strait gate, He will indeed arrive at the destination, no matter how falteringly he proceeded on the way, or how many times he wandered off of the path, as long as he continued back on it...
No because believing means more than intellectual assent. Satan and his demons "believe" in Jesus to this extent - and shudder. "Belief" for salvation includes repentance. You can't just believe IN Christ but you must believe Christ - what he said and what he commanded. In the first sermon Christ gives in all the first three Gospels his first command is "repent".
an important point- (and one you may have covered already, I don’t know) is that the word ‘repent’ does not mean ‘renounce and turn from all sin before conversion in order to make one’s self good enough for salvation’
The word repent simply means ‘to have a change of mind’ - in this case- to have a change of mind about how one becomes saved. To go from trying to be good enough that Christ is then obliged to accept us- to one of “ONLY Christ can save me because I will never be good enough to save myself”- this is the point that we fall at His feet- acknowledge that we are sinners in need of a Savior, and call on Him to save us IN OUR Sinful state” (Christ came to heal the sick- not to save the perfect) - Getting saved does not mean we lose our sin desires, and will never fall again, it also does not mean that it will cause us to lose our salvation when we do sin after salvation- it means that now all our sins are forgiven once and for all (Note- we will still suffer consequences for our sins such as sickness, prison- financial ruin etc if we fall into sin- and God may take us out of the world prematurely, but our salvation is guaranteed because God has clearly told us over and over in His word that Christ will never lose a single child- IF We can keep losing our salvation, then those verses are meaningless and lies- Verses that seem to indicate that we can lose our salvation then must be interpreted in light of these positive verses about Christ not losing ANY child of His- the other verses must be read in context, because they can not contradict the positive Word of the Lord
A Christian becomes righteous in God’s sight because of the work of Christ- NOT because of a vow to renounce all sin before becoming saved
Difficult passages must be interpreted in light of clear verses- with context in mind always- to determine to whom the verses apply-
When there are several ‘possible meanings’, then the context must determine which meaning is the correct one
The following sums it up better i think:
[[Principle 4: Use the Bible to help interpret itself.
Interpret difficult passages with clear ones. This is sometimes called the law of non-contradiction. Because the Bible is God’s word, and God is true, the Bible will not contradict itself.
For example, there are clear passages that teach the doctrine of eternal security, that once a person is truly saved he or she cannot lose salvation (John 5; Rom 8 ). Some passages in the Bible are very hard to interpret like Hebrews 6:4-6.2 4
“It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[a] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace”
So I would let the overall and clear theology of the Bible influence me that a very hard passage like Hebrews 6 is not teaching that someone can lose his salvation.]]
https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-6-principles-biblical-interpretation
Yes...Because what you will want to do is please God...
I don't agree...Doing sin is giving in to the 'old man' who we are in constant battle with...
[[So I accept Jesus, and then I can Do anything I want.?]]
Technically yes- but just like anyone else- saved or unsaved- you WILL suffer the consequences of your actions- Backslidden Christians can fall into very serious sin, wind up with STD’s- wind up in prison the rest of their lives- or wind up being taken off the earth before they should have because of their sinful lifestyle choice-
Why would you want to risk that?
also- what was the person’s motivation for ‘Getting Saved’? To get a ‘free pass’ so they could continue in sin? Then their ‘salvation conversion’ should be called into question- Did they truly have a change of mind about how to be saved? It would seem not- (But only God can tell and the person making the choice)- it would seem their motivation was selfish in nature, and not one of true repentance (change of mind about how to be saved) - It would seem the person just added a ‘lucky charm’ to their collection rather than accepting Christ as Savior
God knows the heart- and another thing- the person that truly does become saved- then falls into sin- God will continually be working in their conscience to bring them into fellowship with Him- however, if the person refuses- then again, God may take them out early- OR they will suffer the consequences of their sinful life- which could be very severe consequences- again, why would a Christian want that for themselves?
Exactly...We all sin...Could be most of us already lost our salvation and don't realize it yet...Hebrews says once we lose it, we can't get it back...
OK, so works are required then...
**Thank God for scriptures like Ephesians 2:8-1**
Thank God for....
....Mark 16:16
“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned”.
....Hebrews 5:9
“And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.”
Where under your teaching system (or Charles “now listen” Stanley’s) is the muscle movement limitations to be saved? Suppose someone goes to hear a preacher, walking a mile in the process, and is converted; did that person work for salvation?
[[As long as a believer ‘goes on believing” he goes on having eternal life.]]
[[at some point true faith is defected from by those who continue in sin...]]
[[ ongoing faith is what God requires. Doing sin is an act of unbelief...]]
Your articles have been about the doctrine of OSAS- which it appears that you support- but then you go and say things like the above- which contradicts The Verses that state quite clearly that not one of Christ’s children will ever be lost- no matter what- You can’t say that those verses are true- when you state that we must have ‘ongoing faith’ in order to ‘remain saved’- You are teaching two different doctrines here-
So St. Peter is not saved?
All sin is a form of unbelief, “Whatsoever is not of faith is sin” Romans 14
All sin is a form of unbelief, “Whatsoever is not of faith is sin” Romans 14
I completely agree with that latter part of your post, as you make the need to continue to be faithful, and follow in the teachings of Christ imperative to an eventual salvation, when we're no longer in the corruptible, but put on on the incorruptible. 1 Corinthians 15:50-56
I awoke a few nights past, startled out of a sound sleep by this verse: “If anyone is unwilling to work, he shall not eat.” - 2 Thessalonians 3:10
It immediately clicked that this is directly related to what Yeshua said, "Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." - John 6:54
It is clear to me that one must remain faithful unto the end. And thank you for having the courage to take on such a controversial subject today. In times past, being faithful meant striving for righteousness in the way we live - today it seems not that important, and what I feel is the iniquity/apostasy prophets warned us to lookout for - and we're seeing the results of this iniquity today.
May God bless you and keep you and yours strong during difficult times.
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