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To: winslow

Are you arguing against the requirement to “go on believing...?” There are two problems I intend to address, the one problem is false conversion, which you just referenced, “Easy believes”... but the other problem is apostasy. What is apostasy? Removal from a previous position. Are you telling me that believing is not an ongoing and lifelong requirement?


8 posted on 09/07/2019 2:05:39 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles (ore and rebuild Jerusale)
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To: pastorbillrandles

There are a few scriptures that appear to support “once saved always saved,” but I think there are far more scriptures that make clear that one can fall away from the faith. There are also scriptures that talk about restoring believers to the faith.

WIthout getting into all the various scriptures here, I think one can back slide to the point where they die in their sins, but they can also repent and be restored so long as they are still alive. I am open to changing this interpretation so long as it’s supported by scripture read in context and not by verses taken out of context.


14 posted on 09/07/2019 2:56:31 PM PDT by CitizenUSA (Proverbs 14:34 Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people.)
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To: pastorbillrandles
To pastorbillrandles .......You really ought to watch your level of arrogance. You are very condescending in your pompous wrongness. And that you actually pastor a Grace Evangelical Church really scares me, cuz you are basically teaching a works-based (thus false) salvation, minimizing the completed work of Christ on the Cross. What you are describing is really no different than the Catholic version of works and earned salvation. Christ said “it is finished”, not “it depends on”. You can’t alter and thus negate John 3:16-18 without vilifying Christ’s accomplished sacrifice for us. The entire promise and work of salvation is completed BY GOD Himself. That’s why HE calls faith a GIFT!! For you to teach otherwise is an onerous deception. How can one rest in Christ as He bids us to if we constantly have to worry if our faith is faith enough? 🙏🙏🙏💕👵🏻
26 posted on 09/07/2019 5:23:42 PM PDT by CAGOPgramma (In God we still trust!!)
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To: pastorbillrandles

I’m saying that salvation is of the Lord. Our faith was a gift from God according to Ephesians 2:8-9 and Philippians 1:29.

Romans 8: 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[h] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

God’s Everlasting Love
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be[i] against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33 Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.[j] 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 As it is written,

“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1)So God had a plan from eternity to save those whom he foreknew (this is foreknowing or foreloving of the individuals, not knowledge of their future actions).
2)Those that are known by God from eternity are predestined to be conformed to Jesus image. God’s plan is for us to be changed and sanctified and to become like Jesus. This is not easy believe-ism!
3)Those whom he predestined he called. This is the inward call of God, (not the outward call of the gospel being preached) His divine command to dead souls to live.
4) Those who receive this inward call will be justified. God draws them to Christ, removes their emnity and hostility towards Him, and graciously grants them repentance and faith. They gladly believe , having received a new nature in the new birth.
5) Those whom he justified, He also glorified. It should not require saying but I’ll say it anyway. It does not say “some of those justified will be glorified”. It says simply that those that are justified will also be glorified. This is God’s work from start to finish. Jesus did not came to make men savable. He came to save. Actually He came to seek and to save (because there is none who seek after God according to Romans 3).
6) In case the above passage does not give believers a strong sense of security, it goes on to say that nothing can separate us from the love of God. Nothing. Not past events, not present or future events. Past, present and future events include our own actions and sins. Nothing in creation or in the Spirit world will separate us. We will be kept in His love.

In order for what you’re preaching to be true. You have to say “some of those justified will be glorified”. You have to say there is something that can separate you from God’s love which is your own sin.
What you are preaching is getting close to Roman Catholicism and mortal sins and the need to be justified again and again. What is the blessing of Justification? Blessed is the man whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him. Paul anticipates that some might use the gospel as a means to take advantage of God’s grace, but points out that Christians should not have this type of attitude.

Is believing on ongoing requirement? Yes. But the ability to persevere has been given to believers by Christ. He is not just the author of our faith, but also the finisher. He is faithful to complete that which He started. Apostasy is mentioned because many who appear to be saved and at first gladly receive the word do abandon the faith. There are wheat and tares, but wheat does not become tares. They are different in nature. The tares were so from the start. They may have tasted of God’s goodness and the blessings of fellowship and understood the message in their minds. They may have enjoyed the community of church life and made friendships there. They may have been convicted of sin to a degree and outwardly reformed their life without being truly born again and having repented. They were not saved though. This is what Hebrews 6 is about.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

Those that are Christs will stay the course. He will keep them from falling. We will persevere because He preserves us. None will be lost whom the Father gives to Christ. Not one.


36 posted on 09/09/2019 1:37:50 PM PDT by winslow
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