Whoever Goes On Believing, Goes On Having Eternal Life...OSAS pt 5

https://billrandles.wordpress.com/2019/09/07/whoever-goes-on-believing-goes-on-having-eternal-life/ ^ | 09-08-19 | Bill Randles

[dadfly]

yes, backsliding is often temporary and certainly readily forgiven by God. but the nature of rebellion in man, which is the original sin, and underlies the evil choices of those with moral free-will—those who have historically known, but opposed God—tends to be permanent in my reading of history and human nature.

[dadfly]

thanks for a great discussion. unfortunately i’ve got to hit the road. i’ll check back later though. may God continue to bless you and yours.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I really liked your handling of this a couple of days ago:

"Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us; ( 2 Corinthians 1: 9-10)

Paul speaks, in one sentence, of a past, a present and a future. It reminds me of what St. Joan of Arc reportedly said to her cruel ecclesiastical persecutors. Asked if she were saved, she said "Jesus has saved me; Jesus is saving me; in the end--- I have the hope ---in His mercy may Jesus save me."

[CAGOPgramma]

Dear Mr. Winslow.......Thank you for your clarification of eternal salvation. This “pastor billrandles” is wrong, by reducing faith that is a GIFT (so no one can boast) to a mere works value. Jesus is the completer and keeper of our faith. Our eternal salvation is IN HIM. . We are not good or worthy by our own efforts, but because we are IN Christ, justified and sanctified ONLY by HIS sacrifice, His FULL recompense (payment) for our sins past present and future. If this were not true, then His sacrificial death would be rendered useless, a mockery. For this pastorbill to add onto Christ’s own Words is false teaching. Thanks to brave believers like Mr Winslow, pastorbill is being refuted and corrected. Please keep it up!! 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏💕👵🏻

[pastorbillrandles]

Dear Gramma, I do not deny that Salvation is a gift, you will not find any “works” righteousness in my gospel. I have already previously refuted the idea that one can be saved by the works of the flesh. You are saying the same thing i am saying when you say, “Our Salvation is in Him”. Show me where I have “added on to Christ’s Words” gramma, so I can correct myself. Mr Winslow did not refute anything I have said. I have a question for you; do you believe saving faith is a one time experience, or is it not an ongoing , continuous ‘abiding’? As Mr Winslow said, those warnings in hebrews are real...

[CAGOPgramma]

To pastorbillrandles .......You really ought to watch your level of arrogance. You are very condescending in your pompous wrongness. And that you actually pastor a Grace Evangelical Church really scares me, cuz you are basically teaching a works-based (thus false) salvation, minimizing the completed work of Christ on the Cross. What you are describing is really no different than the Catholic version of works and earned salvation. Christ said “it is finished”, not “it depends on”. You can’t alter and thus negate John 3:16-18 without vilifying Christ’s accomplished sacrifice for us. The entire promise and work of salvation is completed BY GOD Himself. That’s why HE calls faith a GIFT!! For you to teach otherwise is an onerous deception. How can one rest in Christ as He bids us to if we constantly have to worry if our faith is faith enough? 🙏🙏🙏💕👵🏻

[pastorbillrandles]

Gramma, what “works” am I preaching here? Shouldn’t you beware of the arrogance of accusing a fellow believer of teaching something that he isn’t teaching? What Works do you acciuse me of teaching? Continuing infaith is not a “Word” it is faith. All I am doing is teaching the nature of true saving faith, that it is not a one time experience, rather it is an ongoing continuous relationship with God. Was Jesus teaching Works when he told us to “abide” in Him? Does John 15:2-5 describe works?

[CAGOPgramma]

I’m concerned that you cannot see the difference between what you are teaching about faith and what Mr Winslow and I are expressing. I never fear that I will lose my faith because Jesus is The Keeper of my faith. Because my salvation is by faith alone, which is a gift........a GIFT. I will never be able to boast that “I kept my faith” because that says it was not a GIFT given through Jesus’s precious work. If I have to “keep” my faith, then I’ve turned it into a work. When I trusted Jesus, I trusted. Done. Jesus was asked by a man, “what must I do to be saved?” And Jesus answered very simply, “Believe in Me.” He has also said, “even those who believe in My Name”. Are these empty words?! The thief on the cross was forgiven hours before he died.......did it depend on his maintaining that faith until his last breath to be saved? If anyone makes salvation more complicated than Jesus made it, then they are undoing His finished work. Now, on the other hand, a person can profess belief publically and not mean it. That is between them and God. But once you truly believe, then you are in Christ and can believe that, through all your irritating human ups and downs, He will complete it. No one can tell you you don’t have enough faith to be saved. Now, I do wish to apologize to you. I reacted pretty strongly to your words, because I get very angry at all the false teachings out there (the emerging churches, the Benny Hinns, the apostasy-popes, that mega-social-pastor in Texas.....whatshisname...and his books, etc.) I am hoping if you really think we are saying the same thing, then perhaps you could rephrase your teaching a little more clearly. After all, I am just part of the peons out here struggling to understand and at the same time stand strong and be strong enough to help others stand in this crucial time. If I interpreted your words the way I did, others will too. Thank you and God bless your work to His glory. 🙏👵🏻

[pastorbillrandles]

Thanks Gramma, I accept your apology. I am teaching the very thing you are saying, if you look at it again, the only requirement is belief. I even quoted John 6 in a previous article, (this is a series) “This is the Work , that you believe on him that sent me...” All I am preaching is faith in Jesus, I am only emphasizing that those who believe must continue in faith. Pray for me please,

[CitizenUSA]

I agree that back sliding can turn into something permanent. Yet, I’m convinced that someone can still repent and turn back, although they will probably always regret that they did not serve Christ faithfully as they should have. But to say a Believer can never repudiate or doubt God, aka back slide, without the possibility of reconciliation, is to deny Christ’s ability to forgive and wash away sins. To also say a believer can do whatever they want, willfully walk away and never repent of subsequent sins, and never risk losing salvation, flies in the face of scripture. Even believers must continue to repent and have their robes washed clean as Christ demonstrated when He washed the apostle’s feet.

Regardless of all the above, it is clear that Christ has total authority in regard to salvation, and we will no doubt know and understand all when we are raised to stand before Him. If someone is sent from Christ’s presence, I think they will know that judgment is entirely deserved. There will be no arguing over it.

[sauropod]

.

[nonsporting]

present continuous tense

Ancient Greek has a present tense whose aktionsart is indeterminant. See Wallaces' The Basics of New Testament Syntax: An Intermediate Greek Grammar.

It is wrong to twist Greek in this way. I can find aorist tense counter example which can be used to say just the opposite. When the jailor asks Paul and Silas in Acts 16, "Sirs, What must I do to be saved?", here is how they respond:

..., Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (Acts 16:31)

Πίστευσον -- "believe", this 2nd person imperative is aorist, a "one time action" (punctiliar), as arm chair Greek scholars will often echo.

[trebb]

I have modified my sinful behaviors over the years...what i concentrate on is recognizing them as what they are but reveling in the fact that when I asked Jesus into my heart as my Lord and savior, His blood washed away all my sins - past/present/future and God no longer recognizes my sinful behavior as sin...

33“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel

after that time,” declares the Lord.

“I will put my law in their minds

and write it on their hearts.

I will be their God,

and they will be my people.

34No longer will they teach their neighbor,

or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’

because they will all know me,

from the least of them to the greatest,”

declares the Lord.

“For I will forgive their wickedness

and will remember their sins no more.”

35This is what the Lord says,

(from Jeremiah).

Even though my sinful nature survives, God sees me as a pure saint....I still repent of my on-going nature and take heart that even Paul, who had met the risen Jesus and was specially chosen to carry the Word, lamented that he still found himself doing things he knew he shouldn’t do and not doing things he should...if one so close to Jesus couldn’t beat his sinful nature into submission, what chance have the rest of us?
And “the poor in spirit shall inherit the kingdom of Heaven”....Those who recognize they are still sinners by word and deed, and who wish they could be otherwise, will see heaven because they know for a fact that but for the blood of Jesus, they would never be deemed worthy...

Many blessings...

[dp0622]

Hey that was a beautiful post. Thanks man.

Have a good Sunday.

[trebb]

You too, my FRiend.

[winslow]

I’m saying that salvation is of the Lord. Our faith was a gift from God according to Ephesians 2:8-9 and Philippians 1:29.

Romans 8: 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[h] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

God’s Everlasting Love
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be[i] against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33 Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.[j] 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36 As it is written,

“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1)So God had a plan from eternity to save those whom he foreknew (this is foreknowing or foreloving of the individuals, not knowledge of their future actions).
2)Those that are known by God from eternity are predestined to be conformed to Jesus image. God’s plan is for us to be changed and sanctified and to become like Jesus. This is not easy believe-ism!
3)Those whom he predestined he called. This is the inward call of God, (not the outward call of the gospel being preached) His divine command to dead souls to live.
4) Those who receive this inward call will be justified. God draws them to Christ, removes their emnity and hostility towards Him, and graciously grants them repentance and faith. They gladly believe , having received a new nature in the new birth.
5) Those whom he justified, He also glorified. It should not require saying but I’ll say it anyway. It does not say “some of those justified will be glorified”. It says simply that those that are justified will also be glorified. This is God’s work from start to finish. Jesus did not came to make men savable. He came to save. Actually He came to seek and to save (because there is none who seek after God according to Romans 3).
6) In case the above passage does not give believers a strong sense of security, it goes on to say that nothing can separate us from the love of God. Nothing. Not past events, not present or future events. Past, present and future events include our own actions and sins. Nothing in creation or in the Spirit world will separate us. We will be kept in His love.

In order for what you’re preaching to be true. You have to say “some of those justified will be glorified”. You have to say there is something that can separate you from God’s love which is your own sin.
What you are preaching is getting close to Roman Catholicism and mortal sins and the need to be justified again and again. What is the blessing of Justification? Blessed is the man whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him. Paul anticipates that some might use the gospel as a means to take advantage of God’s grace, but points out that Christians should not have this type of attitude.

Is believing on ongoing requirement? Yes. But the ability to persevere has been given to believers by Christ. He is not just the author of our faith, but also the finisher. He is faithful to complete that which He started. Apostasy is mentioned because many who appear to be saved and at first gladly receive the word do abandon the faith. There are wheat and tares, but wheat does not become tares. They are different in nature. The tares were so from the start. They may have tasted of God’s goodness and the blessings of fellowship and understood the message in their minds. They may have enjoyed the community of church life and made friendships there. They may have been convicted of sin to a degree and outwardly reformed their life without being truly born again and having repented. They were not saved though. This is what Hebrews 6 is about.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

Those that are Christs will stay the course. He will keep them from falling. We will persevere because He preserves us. None will be lost whom the Father gives to Christ. Not one.