What do Pentecostals Believe?

Calvinisitc ^ | 2019 | Calvinistic

[mountn man]

Is he saying that someone who believes in Jesus, but also believes that works are also necessary, is not saved?

Nope.

He is saying that believing that works are a part of getting salvation, means you're not saved.

The Bible clearly states that by grace are you saved,
not by works,
Lest anyone boast.

Grace means Christ did EVERYTHING.

True faith is believing THAT he DID everything , that no other requirements are needed.
Any works done, are in response to what Christ did,
NOT a prelude or addendum to.

Once works are added to the attainment of salvation, grace ceases to be grace. A free gift from God.

[Yashcheritsiy]

Honestly, not a big fan of the Charismatic movement, but all the same, a papist is probably not going to be my first choice for getting information about them.

[sheana]

I was raised Pentecostal. Lived with my grandparents and my grandfather was a Pentecostal preacher. Had his own Church of God. Went to church 4 to 5 times a week. Skirts below the knees. Sleeves right below the elbows. No makeup or hair cutting. No jewelry other than a wedding band. No doctors because Jesus would heal you....although that part has changed. Yes, most of my family is still Pentecostal. And no, they weren’t allowed to beat their women, or anyone for that matter. They were/are a peaceful bunch.

[mountn man]

John 3 makes it pretty clear.

16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world,
but that the world might be saved through Him.

18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The word "believe" comes from the word pisteuó meaning persuaded.
One can persuade themselves of something,
Or they can be persuaded by God.

Only context indicates which one.
The context of John 3, is being persuaded by God.

Thus God has already extended grace.

[ifinnegan]

“Is he saying that someone who believes in Jesus, but also believes that works are also necessary, is not saved?”

Probably.

If you think you have to do something, you don’t believe Jesus saved you through His death and resurrection.

[mostly_lies]

Wouldn’t it be that we chose to believe, but the fact that we can choose to and stick to believe be due to God’s grace?,

absolutely not. That assertion is not scriptural, but solely a concept which springs from the reason of man, and is in fact in opposition to the scripture. This debate goes back at least as far as Pelagius, who asserted that grace is not necessary for salvation. I am glad that you stated it the way you did, as it makes clear the real divide here. Salvation (including the decision to repent and believe) is ALL of grace. It is not a bifurcated mix of our effort -whether that effort is to "keep ourselves in the grace of God"... a biblical command- or to believe initially. Again, the assertion from the bible is that the command to believe and the command to continue in the faith are both predicated on the idea that neither are ultimately to be found in us, but in the grace of God.

If a person later decides he no longer believes, then he doesn’t follow what Jesus prescribed “he that endureth to the end will be saved”

if one reads scripture, what does Jesus say saves us?

Indeed

Your answers below assume that these evidences of grace are causes of grace. i.e, that the grace of God is contingent on the activities of men. This is a false assumption. Our faith, and the evidences of faith in obedience, are solely rooted in the grace of God. It is only if you ignore this clear teaching of the bible itself that you can wrest these passages to teach that faith or the consequent obedience that springs from faith originate in the will of man.

Matt. 24:13 “But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” Matt 25:31-46 “34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.” Jesus says that if you endure to the end you get salvation, that if you helped your fellow man you inherit the kingdom of God (you get salvation) —> note these are HIS own words 1 Pet. 3:20-21: “ It (Baptism )saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ” Note — also in Acts 16:31 we are told to believe and you will be saved — so Faith is definitely one of the things needed, yet as you see above, it is not ONLY faith. Remember — James says “even the demons believe - and shudder” — it is not faith ALONE that saves Jesus said it is not faith ALONE. We are saved by God’s GRACE. Full-stop.

Agreed... and of course

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. — it’s never faith ALONE. Note that the faith brings out fruits in us - our “works” can’t save us, but yet those who faith, those with grace, show it in their works. He who believes and is baptized will be saved. (Mk 16:16) [U]nless you repent you will all likewise perish. (Lk 13:3)<,li> [H]e who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jn 6:54) no one is denying that one MUST have faith to be saved by the freely given grace of salvation, however, it is not faith ALONE.

There ain't no such animal. Such "faith" is not saving faith, but rather an intellectual assent, possibly combined with some emotional froth. As the passage in James cited above, even the demons have such "faith"

As shown above, Jesus Himself said that He who believes and is baptized will be saved. (Mk 16:16) [U]nless you repent you will all likewise perish. (Lk 13:3 [H]e who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jn 6:54) So, we have the words of Jesus who said it is faith+ repentance+baptism+the Eucharist+endurance, not any of these in isolation. Of course, these don’t “save us” per se, since it is Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross that grants us our salvation

true
BR> that we can accept or reject

also true, but I refuse to acknowledge that our acceptance or rejection of this is rooted in men. This is where your logic has trumped scripture. You are making an assumption here that ignores the root issue.

The problem happens when one takes one section of the word in isolation.

Indeed. Truer than you know.

It is possible that you are Roman Catholic in your postion and understanding. You should review Augustine and his controversy with Pelagius, and consider that Pelaginansim (essentialy the position you have outlined above, has been declared a heresy by the church itself. It is the re-adoption of this position of heresy, and incorporated into the official teachings of the church at Trent(!) which is the root of the difficulty we have here.

[Cronos]

Thank you - I’ll read it later. But I reject both Pelaginansim and semi-Pelaginansim —> as I said, we can’t save ourselves, no matter what we do — that was what Pelagius asserted.

More, let me get back to you tomorrow :)

[F105-D ThunderChief]

I am an Apostolic Pentecostal. We believe in One God and that Jesus in his Name. I seek not to offend, but to share some tenants of my belief.

(Some Scriptural References) King James Version

One God

• Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is One Lord: Deuteronomy 6:4

The Day of Pentecost and the Holy Ghost

• And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. Acts 2:1
• And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. Acts 2:2
• And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. Acts 2:3
• And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:4

Baptism in the Name of Jesus and Salvation

• Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ Acts 2:36
• Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Acts 2:37
• Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38

Born Again

• There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: John 3:1
• The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. John 3:2
• Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. John 3:3
• Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? John 3:4
• Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3:5

[Cronos]

Thank you for that explanation of why your Pentecostal church rejects the Trinity

[imardmd1]

Acts 2 is about the birth of the first New Covenant assembly of disciples on the Jewish festival of Pentecost.

1. Which of the 120 spirit-born disciples spoke in a language in which he/she had no training?

2. Which verse certified that any disciple spoke in a foreign language?

3. Were any if the words spoken by the prophets written down as inspired scripture?

4. If so, where may one find them?

[metmom]

Some do.

So what?

Because the article went on to say that those who deny the Trinity are cults.

You should not have forgotten to post that part.

Otherwise it looks like you’re trying to broadbrush all of Pentecostalism.

[metmom]

That is not representative of the Pentecostals I have met, and I know a lot of them.

[metmom]

That’s not the fault of Pentecostalism.

That’s a cultural thing by some power hungry demagogues who abuse Scripture as an excuse to justify their behavior.

[metmom]

That Matthew 24 verse is NOT about salvation.

It’s spoken about those going through the Tribulation period, not a general verse to the current church age believers.

The context tells you who Jesus is talking about and when.

That’s one of the most misapplied verses works based salvationists use to justify their doctrine.

[metmom]

PWND.

[SharpRightTurn]

“The problem happens when one takes one section of the word in isolation.”

Excellent post. It’s amazing how many people cherrypick the verse they prefer and completely dismiss other verses on the same subject matter.

[Cronos]

Thank you for your patience and reply.

To your first paragraph - it is scriptural that we choose to believe. But note my assertion that the ability, the fact that we can is due to God’s grace. It is not something we can be proud of, nor that we save ourselves. It is that we choose to hold on to the life-saving ring thrown around us by God (God’s grace being the ring)

This is NOT Pelagian - as I stated clearly, grace is essential for and is how we are saved. We do not save ourselves.

“your answers below...” — no, I pointed out these are evidences of grace given by God, but those that God said we should do as a sign of our grace
Matt 24:12 “endure to the end”
Matt 25 - look after the poor and sick
1 Pet - baptism
Acts 16:31 believe and be saved’

Note that each point it is God’s grace that acts through us, and it is God’s grace that saves us.

[Cronos]

1. well it says “each of them” the spirit came upon. It’s a pretty valid assumption that the vast majority knew Aramaic as their first language with hebrew and greek to different levels. There might have been some who knew Latin (Romanes eunt domum :) )

2. Acts 2:6

3. Yes -

4. Initially the septuagint, then in the first canons of the collection of books called the bible

[Cronos]

So what?

Well it’s a pretty big deal to have Christians who reject the Trinity. Above you’ve got a person who outlines why his pentecostal kirk rejects the Trinity.

Do you reject the Trinity as well?

[metmom]

That’s not the main point of my post.

You focused on that and left it hanging as if it were representative of all Pentecostalism.

That is wrong.