Posted on 08/18/2019 7:05:12 PM PDT by Al Hitan
Thanks for making my point:
kurios - God
You lie, blatantly: “Most protestants on this forum claim she was not a virgin ...” ebbtide
Amen!
Where the Bible states Jesus was conceived in Mary's womb, the meaning is the Jesus was implanted in her womb. When He implanted in her womb, she gave sustenance to His gestational life. She did not give Him life, she gave life support. Giving life to create an embryo is not what Mary did. Enlivening the Spirit within The Jesus is not what Mary did.
Catholics like vlad, Sal, ebb, and Hitan conflate, conveying the impression that Mary gave life to God so that the devilish mythos of Mary as Queen of Heaven (Semiramis anyone?) can be supported, albeit speciously.
God has no progenitor. He tells us I Am that I AM. The conflating of surrogate mothering with progenitor is devilish, and the truth of that conflating goes right over a Catholic head as evidenced on this forum.
See posts #33, 36, 43 and 53.
I’m not holding my breath for an apology from you.
Mary being blest or not has nothing to with sin...Mary being blest had nothing to do with Mary...It was all God's work...
It is so simple, I can't believe you guys don't get it...Or maybe you do but just deny it...
Why did God use a human body for the mother of Jesus when he could have just created a body for Jesus himself??? If Mary had been sinless which rubbed off on Jesus, Jesus couldn't have been the perfect sacrifice...
God can not sin...Jesus had to be capable of sinning...He had to be able to be tempted to sin...He had to get that nature from a human sinner...
ebb, you’re losin’ it, dude. NOTHING in those cited posts contradicts what I posted, so where you imagine those posts demand I apologize to you for the conflating you purposely do is, well, hilarious!
Aren't all of us God's work? Was not Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Jeffery Dahmer, etc. God's work?
We, including Mary, were all born with free will. And Mary exercised her free will at the Annuciation.
Finally, do you think God would choose a sinful vessel to become Man for our salvation?
Did you just learn a new word, “conflate”? It’s getting tiresome.
Finally, do you think God would choose a sinful vessel to become Man for our salvation?
The prophets, apostles and us are your so called sinful vessels. God has always used sinful vessels for his purposes.
Regarding free will. Do we have absolute free will or does God have absolute free will? We both cannot. So that means our “free will” is subject to God’s discretions. Did Israel have an say in being chosen by God? Did the prophets have any say in being chosen by God?
Jonah tried to not participate, didn’t work.
God is God and we are not. God is sovereign.
God commanded Mary and told her what was going to happen,
Your emphasis on FREE WILL needs further thinking.
You also need to do further reflection on what is “Gods Work” I don’t think you really know what it means.
Are you really serious? You think God is limited in what He can do?
How little faith.
How do you explain Lucifer?
This from someone who has studied both Hebrew and Greek and knows the Bible.
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As far as Mary goes, we know that no human being is anything but a creation of God. And God’s creation cannot beget an omniscient God creator. You were correct in saying that in referring to her as the mother of Jesus, the writers of the Bible were merely describing her.
Indeed, I would think that it is idolatry to believe that Mary is the mother of God as if she were equal to or a god herself. We have only one God. The Bible says Jesus set aside his divinity to become a man. And to become a man, he had to gestate and be born by a woman. That does not make the woman the mother of God as if she can of her own create a divine being; she is a servant of God (as she referred to herself), whom God used to beget Jesus. The Trinity is a difficult concept. As they are one, but each part of the Trinity is also distinguishable.
For example, Jesus was crucified, died and was buried, but God, the Father, did not die that day. Jesus died and God resurrected him. Therefore, clearly there is a distinction between Jesus, the Son of God, and God, the Father. So, we also can say that Mary is mother of one and not the other. But Jesus and the Father are also One. It is not something our human minds can fully grasp, but God gave us metaphors to try to help us understand. And the metaphor He gave us for Jesus is that he is the “Son of God” and God is the “Father.” to help us understand that there is a distinction, but they are also One.
Mary is not referred as the “Mother” in the way God is called the “Father,” but she is simply the “mother of Jesus.” She is never referred to as part of the Trinity or is somehow equal to it. But Jesus referred to God as his Father, clearly making a distinction between himself in the form of the Son of God and God, the Father. Indeed, God himself distinguished himself from his Son at the transfiguration when he said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him.” Was He simply speaking aloud and referring to Himself? No, of course not. To believe that Jesus and God are the same for all purposes is to ignore how Jesus and God referred to themselves.
It is only sophistry to try to make Mary out to be the mother of God, the Father, as if she is somehow equal to or grater than God. Indeed, if you want to engage in such sophistry, then when at the time of his death, Jesus declared that Mary was now John’s mother and John was now Mary’s son, this may have been Jesus’s way of removing himself from the earthly mother/son relationship and restoring himself to his divine role as that of a member of the Trinity, but in a way to indicate that Mary was not a part of that divine nature. I’m not saying whether this is why he said this to Mary and John, but I could see an argument for it to avoid people declaring that Mary was somehow more than human or was part of the divine. Maybe he was aware that this was a risk.
It most certainly did because she knew the difference between God and King...If she had meant God she would have said theos and not kyrios...Elizabeth did not recognize Jesus (in the womb) as the God of creation...
We can either accept the Catholic deception or we can read and understand the bible...Neither Elizabeth nor anyone else was looking for God to show up in the flesh...They were looking and waiting for the promised King/Lord/Messiah to lead in the promised physical kingdom...And THAT is whom Elizabeth became aware of..
The diety of Jesus was not the human flesh...His flesh was made in the fashion of a man...The flesh of Jesus could never have made it to heaven...It would have burned up traveling thru the atmosphere...And THAT's the part of Jesus that Mary was the mother of...
And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars:
And being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered.
And there was seen another sign in heaven: and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads, and ten horns: and on his head seven diadems:
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered; that, when she should be delivered, he might devour her son.
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod: and her son was taken up to God, and to his throne.
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared by God, that there they should feed her a thousand two hundred sixty days.
And there was a great battle in heaven, Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels:
Do you see any difference between Lucifer and protestants? Did not Lucifer protest the Blessed Mother as the protestants do?
And Lucifer had a superior intellect than any human.
There is no where in the bible where Lucifer protested the blest mother of Jesus...And I don't ever recollect seeing where Protestants protested the blest mother of Jesus...What we protest is the Catholic religion turning the blest mother of Jesus into a demi-Goddess...And those who put her on that pedestal are pagans...
x
Kyrios is *lord*.
God is *theos*.
Elizabeth used *lord - kyrios* not *God - theos*.
She did no such thing. She was given instructions, not asked permission.
The angel told her how it was going to be. She had no choice in the matter.
Absolutely.
He shared fully in our humanity and was tempted in every way just as we are.
Having to grow up in a normal big family as the firstborn to normal sinful parents ensured that He experienced just about every temptation we go through.
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