Posted on 07/23/2019 5:26:09 AM PDT by Cronos
I grew up in church culture. Most of what I recall from those early childhood and teenage years bring memories of good things. People genuinely taught me that loving Jesus matters more than anything else in the world. The world, after all, is corrupt and the place we truly long for is far, far away – heaven. So we are to love Jesus and hate the world.
Now, this is not hatred toward the people on earth. I did not grow up in a church culture that taught that we ought to tell outsiders how much they suck, but that this “world is not my home, I’m just a passin’ through.”
World and physicality = bad.
Jesus and spiritual bliss in a distant heaven = goal of the game.
This distinction came with a subset of beliefs about the destiny of God’s world. Eventually this planet would be destroyed and we Christians would “fly away” to heaven at the rapture of the church. Certain Christians understood the timing of the rapture as it corresponds to the book of Revelation differently than others, but no one ever denied the imminent return of Jesus to evacuate the church out of earth.
What I’ve come to realize is that the church of my youth probably had the rapture all wrong. You see, the Bible flows from Creation (Gen 1-2) to Renewed Creation (Rev 21-22). This is the narrative of Scripture. Nothing in the text (if read in its proper context) alludes to the actual complete destruction of the planet. This world’s worth to the Creator runs deep and because of this, the world as a whole ought to be intrinsically valuable to us.
Physical/earthly realities such as social injustice, violence, hunger, preventable sickness, and the destruction of nature are invitations to the church of Jesus to get our hands dirty and proclaim that this world matters (even in its broken state)! Christ will complete creation upon his return, uniting heaven and earth for the life of the age to come!
The famous “rapture” passage is found in 1 Thessalonians 4.15-17 and reads:
According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
This passage, when placed in the larger context of the chapter, is answering questions that Christians in Thessalonica had concerning death. What has happened to our loved ones who have died before the return of Christ to earth? What is theirs and our ultimate destiny? Paul’s answer: bodily resurrection at the return of Christ to earth! Not an escape into the sky [see appendix below!].
In this passage, Paul borrows two specific images from the Old Testament that would have been familiar to Jewish converts and Gentiles who were familiarizing themselves with the Hebrew tradition. The first of these that Paul employs in the text has to do with Moses who comes down from Mount Sinai with the Law with the great blast of the trumpet.
The second image is taken from Daniel chapter 7 where the “one like the son of man” (or “human being” or “The Human One”) and the community he represents is vindicated over the enemies of the people of God. Clouds here symbolize the power and authoritative judgement of God about the rescue of his people. This idea now seems to be applied to Christians who are facing various forms of persecution.
Finally, there is a third image in the text that comes from outside of the canonical context. This is the image of an emperor who visits a city. The people of that region would have gone out to meet him to usher him into their home in a royal procession out in the open air. This, Paul seems to apply to the church who will usher in their King into the new creation.***
Rapture, as it is popularly understood, is nowhere to be found in this “rapture” passage. Christ will return to resurrect, to purge, to heal, and to establish the eternal kingdom of God on this earth. Heaven and earth will unite like a bride and husband – for all eternity. That’s it.
The Bible teaches that when Christ comes back, it will be Good News! “‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away’” (Revelation 21.4). Surely we cannot erase judgment from the picture, but the hope is that those in Christ will be raised to eternal life and everything that is wrong with this world will be made right.
This world renewed is going to be our home for eternity, and we have the opportunity to reflect that future in our present. Rapture invites us to escape this world: the last thing that Jesus would have ever taught! “On earth as in heaven” is what he said, not “in heaven away from the earth!” Our world’s future is hopeful. Let’s tell that story and not the escapist narratives that many of us grew up with.
[Kurt Note: This article is an adaptation from various pieces that are part of my “rapture” category.]
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Below is a Word Study that I did based on 1 Thessalonians 4.17. What is interesting to me is how it reinforced my belief that the “rapture” as it is popularly understood (Jesus secretly returns to extract believers from earth to heaven for eternity) is completely unwarranted. If you choose to follow the logic below, you will know why 🙂
The word underlying “air” in 1 Thessalonians 4.17 is the Greek word “ἀήρ” (Strong’s: #109).
The usage of ἀήρ in the New Testament by verse:
Acts 22:23
…εἰς τὸν ἀέρ
…dust into the air,
1Co 9:26
…ὡς οὐκ ἀέρα δέρων·
…one that beateth the air:
1Co 14:9
…γὰρ εἰς ἀέρα λαλοῦντες.
…shall speak into the air.
Eph 2:2
…ἐξουσίας τοῦ ἀέρος τοῦ πνεύματος…
…power of the air, the spirit that…
1Th 4:17
…κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα καὶ οὕτως…
…the Lord in the air: and so shall…
Rev 9:2
…καὶ ὁ ἀὴρ ἐκ τοῦ…
…sun and the air were darkened by…
Rev 16:17
…ἐπὶ τὸν ἀέρα καὶ ἐξῆλθεν…
…vial into the air; and there came…
1) the air, particularly the lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air 2)the atmospheric region[1]
After surveying the above seven occurrences, it is clear that the definition is simply the area of unseen space in our atmosphere. Below, the meaning in its various usages are explained:
ἀήρ (aēr, 109), ἀέρος, ὁ, (ἄημι, ἄω, [cf. ἄνεμος, init.]), the air (particularly the lower and denser, as distinguished from the higher and rarer ὁ αἰθήρ, cf. Hom. Il. 14, 288), the atmospheric region: Acts xxii. 23; 1 Th. iv. 17; Rev. ix. 2, xvi. 17; ὁ ἄρχων τῆς ἐξουσίας τοῦ ἀέρος in Eph. ii. 2 signifies “the ruler of the powers (spirits, see ἐξουσία 4 c. ββ.) in the air”, i. e. the devil, the prince of the demons that according to Jewish opinion fill the realm of air (cf. Mey. ad loc.; [B. D. Am. ed. s. v. Air; Stuart in Bib. Sacr. for 1843, p. 139 sq.]). Sometimes indeed, ἀήρ denotes a hazy, obscure atmosphere (Hom. Il. 17, 644; 3, 381; 5, 356, etc.; Polyb. 18, 3, 7), but is nowhere quite equiv. to σκότος,— the sense which many injudiciously assign it in Eph. 1. c. ἀέρα δέρειν (cf. verberat ictibus auras, Verg. Aen. 5, 377, of pugilists who miss their aim) i. e. to contend in vain, 1 Co. ix. 26; εἰς ἀέρα λαλεῖν (verba ventis profundere, Lucr. 4, 929 (932)) “to speak into the air” i. e. without effect, used of those who speak what is not understood by the hearers, 1 Co. xiv. 9.*[2]
Although ἀήρ is not a word that is frequent in the New Testament, it is interesting to note that there is only one other word that is translated into English as “air.” The Greek οὐρανός has a different meaning when used as “air” than ἀήρ. Rather than referring to the “lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air,” it means:
1. the vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it
- a. the universe, the world
- b. the aerial heavens or sky, the region where the clouds and the tempests gather, and where thunder and lightning are produced
- c. the sidereal or starry heavens
2. the region above the sidereal heavens, the seat of order of things eternal and consummately perfect where God dwells and other heavenly beings[3]
It seems that the difference between these two words will prove to be significant. The word in the 1 Thessalonians text indicates the “air” of the “lower” region as opposed to the “heavens” as οὐρανός can also be translated (heavens – 24x, heavenly – 1, heaven – 218). In other words, Paul had an option to use either of the words to talk about the “air” but he chose to use the word that refers mostly to the lower atmospheric region.
In the context of 1 Thessalonians 4.17, Paul is answering questions regarding the blessed Christian hope. What happens to Christ-followers who die before the return of the Messiah? Are they gone forever? And what about those of us who are waiting for this day? What are we to look forward to? In answer to these kinds of questions Paul describes the coming of Jesus as a moment of resurrection. Because Jesus died and rose again, his followers will someday be like him. They will have bodies that are restored to the image of Christ who is the image of God.
Paul in this passage uses mixed metaphors to communicating the reality of the final resurrection. He employs imagery from the Old Testament as well as from Roman royalty. Christ will appear in such a way that it will be like Moses when he descended down from the Mountain of Sinai. He will come with the “clouds” meaning that he will come with the power / authority of heaven like the “son of Man” in Daniel 7. When this happens all followers of Jesus will be gathered around their King and will usher him into the new heavens and new earth.
Unfortunately, the present passage of Scripture has been interpreted in several different ways; mostly indicating that the return of Christ will be a rapturous moment when God will snatch believers away from this evil world to meet him in the “air” (up in heaven) for eternity. There are several problems with this approach (too numerous to look at for this word study). The current word study exposes one of the fallacies in this interpretive scheme.
Had the Apostle wanted to communicate that Christ coming downward to take us upward was the goal of the 2nd coming, he could have chosen to use a word like οὐρανός. This word, which is interpreted as “air” on some occasions (as indicated above), would have given the impression that going to meet Christ in the “air” was a upward heavenly route. However, what this word study has discovered is that the word Paul chose to use was one that indicates the lower part of the atmosphere. Paul had a grammatical choice to make, and clearly he did not want to misguide his first century audience by making them think that being “with the Lord forever” actually meant going to heaven, away from the creation project. So, in order to keep his metaphorical devices in place without giving the wrong impression, he chose to use ἀήρ to indicate that he was not talking about escaping this world; but rather being part of its redemptive process. If the alternative word had been selected, Paul would have given us the opportunity to affirm cosmological dualism.
There is no dispute of how ἀήρ is to be translated from Greek into English among the translations. In every version that was checked (ESV, KJV, NIV, and TNIV) this word is translated as “air.”
After consulting the “Easton Bible Dictionary” we find that this word study’s findings about the meaning of the word ἀήρ is consistent and verified. It states: “The atmosphere, as opposed to the higher regions of the sky (1Th_4:17; Rev_9:2; Rev_16:17).”[4] This is also confirmed by the UBS Greek Dictionary: “air; ethereal region above the earth, space.”[5]
***N. T. Wright, “Farewell to Rapture,” Biblical Review (August 2001). http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_BR_Farewell_Rapture.htm (accessed October, 2009).
[1]http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=109&version=nas
[2] http://www.greekbiblestudy.org/gnt/greekWordStudy.do?id=100095&greek=false
[3] http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=3772&version=nas
[4] See: Easton Bible Dictionary. Available Online at: http://refbible.com/a/air.htm
[5] The Greek New Testament With Greek-English Dictionary by B. Aland (Editor), K. Aland (Editor), J. Karavidopoulos (Editor), B. M. Metzger (Editor), C. M. Martini (Editor)
To the both of you, consider all Constantine birth'd in your discussion. His influences indeed spread worldwide, over time.
Another suggestion; examine Daniel's 70 week prophecy from a Jewish perspective in relation to the above.
That word ‘Therefore’ is there for a reason.... The book of Romans brought me to the point where I became a Christian. It's worth reading and asking God to help make it clear......
It’s the time of mockers. That site mocks Christ and of course, the Rapture too. It’s a perfect fulfillment of the Scripture regarding it. “Where is the promise of His Coming?”. I was looking up something else yesterday and ran across it (before I saw all of this). Doesn’t surprise me at all.
By 250 the Church of the East, based in Ctesiphon, under the Sassanids, was ecclesiastically separate from what would become the Oriental-Orthodox-Catholic Churches
It was under the Sassanids who were the enemy of Rome, so they cut off all ties to the Roman Empire based Church
Yet, and here's the nub -- the theological dogma of the Assyrian Church in terms of ecclesiatic position, of Christ's coming and His divinity is the same position as the Orientals or hte Orthodox or the Catholic Church
It is hard to say to what extent Constantine’s lenient policies towards Christians were motivated by genuine personal religious conviction. It is worth noting that Constantine’s mother Helena Augusta was a very devout Christian, so his sympathies for Christianity may have been more out of affection for his beloved Christian mother than out of his own personal religious convictions.
Constantine's one and only contribution to Christianity was that he rescinded a law that made it illegal to practice the Christian faith or to worship publicly.
This allowed Christians to meet publicly and to build meeting house where they could gather and worship together openly.
Constantine did not personally become Christian until the end of his life.
And despite that many ill-informed posts, Constantine DID NOT make Christianity the official religion of the State. That was done 60 years after his death by Emperor Theodosius
Constantine He had nothing to do with the canonization of Scripture. He allowed the bishops to call the Council of Nicaea to settle the question of the relation between the Father and the Son. He did not “wipe out the Arians.” He was baptized on his deathbed by an Arian bishop. His son Constatius was emperor after him and was Arian. Arian and Trinitarians were split about evenly. The Arians had some very effective missionary monks who set out to convert the German tribes. When the Goths swept into the empire they were Arian. Remember Atilla the Hun? He was Arian!
Anyway I digress - Constantine had no impact on Christian core dogma - that was all decided way before his birth and the dogma of the Ancient Church of the East is proof of that
Daniel 9:24-26 is where we find it. It says: "Listen, and understand. Seven sevens plus sixty-two sevens will pass from the time the command is given to rebuild Jerusalem until a ruler – the Messiah – comes. Jerusalem will be rebuilt with streets and strong defenses, despite the distressing times. After this period of sixty-two sevens, the Messiah will be killed…"
So let’s do the math on that: first, it says “Seven sevens plus sixty-two sevens” will pass from the time the command is given to rebuild Jerusalem until the Messiah dies. So that’s 49 (7x7) plus 434 (62x7) = 483 years.
Fortunately, it later tells us when to start the countdown. Nehemiah 2:1-6 states that King Artaxerxes of Persia gave the order in his “twentieth year”, which was 445 BC, according to Britannica (sources at end), in "the month of Nisan" (the Hebrew month corresponding to our March and April).
So, knowing this, we can calculate exactly when it’s saying the Messiah would die. From the command being given to rebuild Jerusalem to the death of the Messiah is 483 years. 483 years after 445 BC would get us 38 AD, but we need to convert the date, as the calendar Daniel was using was slightly different from ours.
Our calendar has 365.25 days, while the Babylonian one Daniel was using had 360 days.
The “left behind rapture” is non-biblical and mocks Christ’s prophecy that Jerusalem would be destroyed. The early Christians believed that - which is why they ran to the mountains when the beast (the Roman Empire) devoured the harlot (the city of Jerusalem). and the New Temple, Jesus (as in John, the body of Christ is the Temple) and the new Jerusalem, Christendom, was God’s promise, fulfilled
The destruction of the 2nd Temple in 69 AD is as prophesised by Jesus and we have the New Temple, the body of Christ. It is perfect.
He did convene the 1stt Council of Nicaea. One of the products of that council was the Nicene Creed. I think that was significant,
Patheos is a site of mockers. I provided a clear example of it above.
That you’re using it as “proof”....well, you should have known better.
[and mocks Christ’s prophecy that Jerusalem would be destroyed]
Hardly. Shows you know nothing about it to say such a thing.
There need be no scripture reference, any one can see that it has been nearly
two thousand years since the death of Jesus.
And no I did not say anything about hoseas after two days having anything to
do with two thousand years.
No that is not what John sees, it is what Paul said in 1 corinthians 15:20.
I did not say anything about Hosea having any thing to do with thousands of years.
Revelation 14:3 and 4 are telling the future of those in the first resurection,
Jesus took them with him but they would live again, plain words.
You are accusing me of saying all kind of things I never said, you did not seem a bush wacker
when I first started talking to you, however you were right about one thing, the pope was not
taken captive in the 1600s I was misinformed.
My question though to clarify -- what do you understand by the Holy Roman empire?
I have no problem with any of that, however I have to admit
you are most likely much more informed concerning history as
I am.
"a thousand years" - the book of the Apocalypse is rife with allegorical numerical references - for instance you'll read again and again
7 - the number signifying completeness - at the throne of God is the 7 spirits signifying the Holy Spirit (who is complete).
6 - incompleteness - and just as the Bible repeats something thrice for emphasis, so 6 6 6 - the numerical number for Nero, is a repeated incompleteness.
1000 - signifying a very long period. 1000 is taken in other cultures for "a long time" - even in anti-Christian ones like theNazis 1000 year Reich
The 1000 year is also symbolical and perhaps literal in indicating the timeperiod between the establishment of the Davidic Kingdom (traditionally about 1000 BC) and Jesus
Jesus Kingdom will not be of the earth - John 18:36
And also in Matthew 24 is specifically about the destruction of the 2nd temple, not about the Judgement day
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. The Day and Hour Unknown 36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.This is specifically that some will die in the seige and destruction of Jerusalem in 69-70 AD
There is no mention of "rapture" 1 Thessalonians 4:16 very clearly is talking of those who died before Christ -
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others who have no hope.Rev 4:1 is about John seeing in his vision.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so will God bring with Him those also who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say unto you by the Word of the Lord: that we who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first;
17 then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
While Constantine ordered the council of Nicaea, he didn’t run the show. He told the self-described Christian authorities, bishops from across the empire, to settle certain differences they had once and for all. At the time, there were disputes in the church over issues as profound and obscure as the relationship between the human and the divine in Christ and as quotidian as figuring out when Easter would be. As a ruler over these Christians, Constantine had a valid interest in the end to such disputes but no interest in any given end. The arguments and conclusions reached were those of the Christian church at the time. Constantine is the one who required a settlement of these issues, but did not dictate what that settlement would be. The council of Nicaea was Christians producing answers for Christians. One might dispute those answers, but you can’t really call them Constantine’s answers.
of the 300 odd bishops who came - all agreed the Nicene creed, except one Arius an heretic unitarian.
it’s not my source for the thread — my source is the book of the Apocalypse which very clearly shows the “left behind rapture” as false.
Arius’s position that the pre-incarnate Christ was a created being, albeit the first of and superior to all the angels, and in fact the creator of everything else except Himself) was unanimously rebuked as novel and heretical. Where the conflict came was in then trying to explain exactly what the Son is in a way that precluded both Modalism and Tritheism.
Constantine had nothing to do with the Canon.
As for Nicaea though, Constantine did call the council because the Arian-Athanasian conflict — as in wide spread “disturbances of the peace”, rabid demonstrations, and occasional riots — was really starting to get out of hand in Egypt, Cyrene, and Cyprus, and was starting to spill over to the rest of the eastern half of the Empire. Quite understandably, Constantine wanted to get it to stop. He called the Council and even paid for the bishops to travel there.
Constantine also presided over the Council— and as very impartial if fascinated judge/chairman, who’s only agenda was peace and unity — as in, “Can’t you guys just get along?”
In the end, Constantine actually suggested the compromise term “homoousion” for the Creed … though he and most everyone else backed away from it within the year when it proved too controversial and too problematic. He and his successor spent the rest of their reigns telling the pro-homoousion hardliners to shut up, keep serving Communion to those who would not confess it, or get out! (As in, “You are now exiled to a one-horse dorp in the Crimea until you are willing to adhere to our policy of toleration and inclusion.”) Increasingly, Constantine sided with and patronized Semi-Arians (and the homoiousion — Yes, the Church was literally tearing itself apart over an iota) and was ultimately baptized by one.
As often happens, the compromise term that was meant to bring clarity and harmony brought the opposite. The term homoousion had a colloquial sense, “same stuff” or “same property”, and by extension “same jurisdiction/right”. But in Aristotelian metaphysics ousion was a special term that basically meant “whatever it is that is intrinsic to something that is what makes it what is and not something else” — the equivalent of the Latin “sine qua non”, “that thing without which it is not”. And attaching “homo” (same) to it creates the same problem in Greek that words like same, identical, and equal present in English: if someone says that A is identical to B, does that mean that A and B are just 2 different names for one entity, or does it mean that A and B are 2 entities that indistinguishable from one another? Homoousion as intended in the Creed basically said, no more and no less, “Whatever it is that is intrinsic to the Father that makes Him “God” is also intrinsic to the Son.” That’s what it was supposed to mean. But masses then were no more familiar with the abstract categories of Aristotelian metaphysics than are people today.
It was not clear to people what homoousion (same substance) actually meant and entailed — some took the view it was Modalistic and therefore heretical; others understood it to be saying that the Father and the Son are made out of “stuff” and it’s “the same stuff”; and no matter how much its defenders tried to get them to understand that was not how they were using it or what was meant by it, multitudes were simply not having it and multitudes more thought it was wrong to excommunicate people who refused to confess something so subject to misunderstanding and not stated explicitly in the Bible.
There is so much false teaching at the sire Indont know where to start
In addition the rapture is Biblical. Enoch and Elisha were raptured in the Old Testament. Then there is the Thessalonians passage. But regardless of what one believes about the rapture false and blasphemous teaching is just that.
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