Why the Rapture isn’t Biblical… And Why it Matters

Patheos ^ | June 4, 2014 | Kurt Williams

[Cronos]

I grew up in church culture. Most of what I recall from those early childhood and teenage years bring memories of good things. People genuinely taught me that loving Jesus matters more than anything else in the world. The world, after all, is corrupt and the place we truly long for is far, far away – heaven. So we are to love Jesus and hate the world.

Now, this is not hatred toward the people on earth. I did not grow up in a church culture that taught that we ought to tell outsiders how much they suck, but that this “world is not my home, I’m just a passin’ through.”

World and physicality = bad.
Jesus and spiritual bliss in a distant heaven = goal of the game.

This distinction came with a subset of beliefs about the destiny of God’s world. Eventually this planet would be destroyed and we Christians would “fly away” to heaven at the rapture of the church. Certain Christians understood the timing of the rapture as it corresponds to the book of Revelation differently than others, but no one ever denied the imminent return of Jesus to evacuate the church out of earth.

What I’ve come to realize is that the church of my youth probably had the rapture all wrong. You see, the Bible flows from Creation (Gen 1-2) to Renewed Creation (Rev 21-22). This is the narrative of Scripture. Nothing in the text (if read in its proper context) alludes to the actual complete destruction of the planet. This world’s worth to the Creator runs deep and because of this, the world as a whole ought to be intrinsically valuable to us.

Physical/earthly realities such as social injustice, violence, hunger, preventable sickness, and the destruction of nature are invitations to the church of Jesus to get our hands dirty and proclaim that this world matters (even in its broken state)! Christ will complete creation upon his return, uniting heaven and earth for the life of the age to come!

The famous “rapture” passage is found in 1 Thessalonians 4.15-17 and reads:

According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

This passage, when placed in the larger context of the chapter, is answering questions that Christians in Thessalonica had concerning death. What has happened to our loved ones who have died before the return of Christ to earth? What is theirs and our ultimate destiny? Paul’s answer: bodily resurrection at the return of Christ to earth! Not an escape into the sky [see appendix below!].

In this passage, Paul borrows two specific images from the Old Testament that would have been familiar to Jewish converts and Gentiles who were familiarizing themselves with the Hebrew tradition. The first of these that Paul employs in the text has to do with Moses who comes down from Mount Sinai with the Law with the great blast of the trumpet.

The second image is taken from Daniel chapter 7 where the “one like the son of man” (or “human being” or “The Human One”) and the community he represents is vindicated over the enemies of the people of God. Clouds here symbolize the power and authoritative judgement of God about the rescue of his people. This idea now seems to be applied to Christians who are facing various forms of persecution.

Finally, there is a third image in the text that comes from outside of the canonical context. This is the image of an emperor who visits a city. The people of that region would have gone out to meet him to usher him into their home in a royal procession out in the open air. This, Paul seems to apply to the church who will usher in their King into the new creation.***

Rapture, as it is popularly understood, is nowhere to be found in this “rapture” passage. Christ will return to resurrect, to purge, to heal, and to establish the eternal kingdom of God on this earth. Heaven and earth will unite like a bride and husband – for all eternity. That’s it.

The Bible teaches that when Christ comes back, it will be Good News! “‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away’” (Revelation 21.4). Surely we cannot erase judgment from the picture, but the hope is that those in Christ will be raised to eternal life and everything that is wrong with this world will be made right.

This world renewed is going to be our home for eternity, and we have the opportunity to reflect that future in our present. Rapture invites us to escape this world: the last thing that Jesus would have ever taught! “On earth as in heaven” is what he said, not “in heaven away from the earth!” Our world’s future is hopeful. Let’s tell that story and not the escapist narratives that many of us grew up with.

[Kurt Note: This article is an adaptation from various pieces that are part of my “rapture” category.]

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APPENDIX

Word Study, 1 Thessalonians 4.17 (Warning: a bit more technical!)

Below is a Word Study that I did based on 1 Thessalonians 4.17. What is interesting to me is how it reinforced my belief that the “rapture” as it is popularly understood (Jesus secretly returns to extract believers from earth to heaven for eternity) is completely unwarranted. If you choose to follow the logic below, you will know why 🙂

1. Word Identification

The word underlying “air” in 1 Thessalonians 4.17 is the Greek word “ἀήρ” (Strong’s: #109).

2. Frequency and Distribution

• Roman Historical Narrative (1x, Acts – 1)
• Pauline Letter (4x, 1Cor – 2, Eph – 1, 1Thes – 1)
• Apocalyptic (2x, Rev – 2)

The usage of ἀήρ in the New Testament by verse:

Acts 22:23

…εἰς τὸν ἀέρ
…dust into the air,

1Co 9:26

…ὡς οὐκ ἀέρα δέρων·
…one that beateth the air:

1Co 14:9

…γὰρ εἰς ἀέρα λαλοῦντες.
…shall speak into the air.

Eph 2:2

…ἐξουσίας τοῦ ἀέρος τοῦ πνεύματος…
…power of the air, the spirit that…

1Th 4:17

…κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα καὶ οὕτως…
…the Lord in the air: and so shall…

Rev 9:2

…καὶ ὁ ἀὴρ ἐκ τοῦ…
…sun and the air were darkened by…

Rev 16:17

…ἐπὶ τὸν ἀέρα καὶ ἐξῆλθεν…
…vial into the air; and there came…

3. Meaning

1) the air, particularly the lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air 2)the atmospheric region[1]

After surveying the above seven occurrences, it is clear that the definition is simply the area of unseen space in our atmosphere. Below, the meaning in its various usages are explained:

ἀήρ (aēr, 109), ἀέρος, ὁ, (ἄημι, ἄω, [cf. ἄνεμος, init.]), the air (particularly the lower and denser, as distinguished from the higher and rarer ὁ αἰθήρ, cf. Hom. Il. 14, 288), the atmospheric region: Acts xxii. 23; 1 Th. iv. 17; Rev. ix. 2, xvi. 17; ὁ ἄρχων τῆς ἐξουσίας τοῦ ἀέρος in Eph. ii. 2 signifies “the ruler of the powers (spirits, see ἐξουσία 4 c. ββ.) in the air”, i. e. the devil, the prince of the demons that according to Jewish opinion fill the realm of air (cf. Mey. ad loc.; [B. D. Am. ed. s. v. Air; Stuart in Bib. Sacr. for 1843, p. 139 sq.]). Sometimes indeed, ἀήρ denotes a hazy, obscure atmosphere (Hom. Il. 17, 644; 3, 381; 5, 356, etc.; Polyb. 18, 3, 7), but is nowhere quite equiv. to σκότος,— the sense which many injudiciously assign it in Eph. 1. c. ἀέρα δέρειν (cf. verberat ictibus auras, Verg. Aen. 5, 377, of pugilists who miss their aim) i. e. to contend in vain, 1 Co. ix. 26; εἰς ἀέρα λαλεῖν (verba ventis profundere, Lucr. 4, 929 (932)) “to speak into the air” i. e. without effect, used of those who speak what is not understood by the hearers, 1 Co. xiv. 9.*[2]

Although ἀήρ is not a word that is frequent in the New Testament, it is interesting to note that there is only one other word that is translated into English as “air.” The Greek οὐρανός has a different meaning when used as “air” than ἀήρ. Rather than referring to the “lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air,” it means:

1. the vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it

1. a. the universe, the world
2. b. the aerial heavens or sky, the region where the clouds and the tempests gather, and where thunder and lightning are produced
3. c. the sidereal or starry heavens

2. the region above the sidereal heavens, the seat of order of things eternal and consummately perfect where God dwells and other heavenly beings[3]

It seems that the difference between these two words will prove to be significant. The word in the 1 Thessalonians text indicates the “air” of the “lower” region as opposed to the “heavens” as οὐρανός can also be translated (heavens – 24x, heavenly – 1, heaven – 218). In other words, Paul had an option to use either of the words to talk about the “air” but he chose to use the word that refers mostly to the lower atmospheric region.

4. Meaning in Context

In the context of 1 Thessalonians 4.17, Paul is answering questions regarding the blessed Christian hope. What happens to Christ-followers who die before the return of the Messiah? Are they gone forever? And what about those of us who are waiting for this day? What are we to look forward to? In answer to these kinds of questions Paul describes the coming of Jesus as a moment of resurrection. Because Jesus died and rose again, his followers will someday be like him. They will have bodies that are restored to the image of Christ who is the image of God.

Paul in this passage uses mixed metaphors to communicating the reality of the final resurrection. He employs imagery from the Old Testament as well as from Roman royalty. Christ will appear in such a way that it will be like Moses when he descended down from the Mountain of Sinai. He will come with the “clouds” meaning that he will come with the power / authority of heaven like the “son of Man” in Daniel 7. When this happens all followers of Jesus will be gathered around their King and will usher him into the new heavens and new earth.

Unfortunately, the present passage of Scripture has been interpreted in several different ways; mostly indicating that the return of Christ will be a rapturous moment when God will snatch believers away from this evil world to meet him in the “air” (up in heaven) for eternity. There are several problems with this approach (too numerous to look at for this word study). The current word study exposes one of the fallacies in this interpretive scheme.

Had the Apostle wanted to communicate that Christ coming downward to take us upward was the goal of the 2^nd coming, he could have chosen to use a word like οὐρανός. This word, which is interpreted as “air” on some occasions (as indicated above), would have given the impression that going to meet Christ in the “air” was a upward heavenly route. However, what this word study has discovered is that the word Paul chose to use was one that indicates the lower part of the atmosphere. Paul had a grammatical choice to make, and clearly he did not want to misguide his first century audience by making them think that being “with the Lord forever” actually meant going to heaven, away from the creation project. So, in order to keep his metaphorical devices in place without giving the wrong impression, he chose to use ἀήρ to indicate that he was not talking about escaping this world; but rather being part of its redemptive process. If the alternative word had been selected, Paul would have given us the opportunity to affirm cosmological dualism.

5. Verification

There is no dispute of how ἀήρ is to be translated from Greek into English among the translations. In every version that was checked (ESV, KJV, NIV, and TNIV) this word is translated as “air.”

After consulting the “Easton Bible Dictionary” we find that this word study’s findings about the meaning of the word ἀήρ is consistent and verified. It states: “The atmosphere, as opposed to the higher regions of the sky (1Th_4:17; Rev_9:2; Rev_16:17).”[4] This is also confirmed by the UBS Greek Dictionary: “air; ethereal region above the earth, space.”[5]

---

FOOTNOTES

***N. T. Wright, “Farewell to Rapture,” Biblical Review (August 2001). http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_BR_Farewell_Rapture.htm (accessed October, 2009).

[1]http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=109&version=nas

[2] http://www.greekbiblestudy.org/gnt/greekWordStudy.do?id=100095&greek=false

[3] http://www.biblestudytools.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=3772&version=nas

[4] See: Easton Bible Dictionary. Available Online at: http://refbible.com/a/air.htm

[5] The Greek New Testament With Greek-English Dictionary by B. Aland (Editor), K. Aland (Editor), J. Karavidopoulos (Editor), B. M. Metzger (Editor), C. M. Martini (Editor)

[cuban leaf]

I agree. And to amplify, pretty much NOTHING about the earth is “natural” compared to other planets. It’s quite unique. It’s as though every aspect, right down to our moon existing at all, as well as it’s being tidal locked. There are so many “coincidences” regarding the planet earth and its friendliness to life that it just may be even more unique than we think.

https://www.popsci.com/earth-may-be-one-kind/

[LeonardFMason]

Is it right that we should distinguish between the nation of Israel and the Church? And is not the Church just a spiritual continuation of Israel? These questions are often posed and the suggestion is made that the many Old Testament promises to Israel are now being enjoyed by the Church in the present day.

A very important phase of Old Testament history began in Genesis chapter 11 with the introduction of Abram who in chapter 17 was renamed Abraham. The significance of the former is that a man who lived in ancient Babylon was called out from it by the personal revelation of the God of Glory (Acts 7:2). The change of name is important in that on the ground of covenant relationship “Abram” was expanded to include “ah,” part of the divine title Jehovah (Gen 17:3-8). This was the origin of the unique nation of Israel, the root of the olive tree of Roman 11:16-18. The practical beginning of the nation began with the birth of the twelve sons of Jacob who developed into tribes during the later years of the Genesis record. Israel became “national” during the years in Egypt and, although chosen and called by God to be His special people, soon there was evidence of failure and sin. The power and grace of God in redemption from Egypt were soon forgotten and the many aspects of failure during the kingdom years in Canaan led to the Captivity. God’s final remedy for failure in both man and the nation of Israel is in the redeeming work of Christ at Calvary and although, following His resurrection, He has ascended into heaven, He will return to earth in power and glory to defeat all who oppose God and to set up His millennial kingdom on earth. Preparatory to this there will be the recovery, redemption, and regeneration of the nation of Israel to bring her into eternal blessing. All of these truths are taught in the Old Testament.

But what made Israel unique and different to the surrounding nations, and what was the essential character of the promises which were made to her? Her promises were in relation to the earth

Before Abram ever left Ur of the Chaldees, Jehovah had promised him a land and that in him would “all families of the earth be blessed” (Gen 12:1-3). Abraham erected his first altar at Shechem and God confirmed to him that he was now in the land which God would give to his seed. Three specific times when God made similar promises regarding his seed follow: “as the dust of the earth” (13:14-17), then innumerable as heaven’s stars (15:5), and finally “as the stars…and as the sand which is upon the sea shore” (22:15-18).

The national blessings to Israel confirm this. Paul, in speaking of his “kinsmen according to the flesh; who are Israelites,” lists the unique features which belonged to the nation of Israel. The “adoption” refers to the national sonship conferred on the nation (see Exodus 4:22, Hosea 11:1), and to the “glory,” the Shekinah cloud of God’s presence which guided and protected them through the wilderness days. The “covenants” of promise were all made by Jehovah to Israel. “The giving of the law” was in particular a feature of Israel’s history. The “service of God” refers to the tabernacle and temple service which set them apart from all other nations. We have already briefly considered the “promises” which had been uniquely vouchsafed to this one nation. The final blessing is of course the greatest! From Israel came the Messiah, the “Sent One” from God into a world of sin. How precisely does Paul speak of Christ! “Of Whom as concerning the flesh,” His humanity! “Who is over all,” His sovereign supremacy! “God blessed forever,” His eternal deity!

The covenant of God with Abraham was unconditional. It should be noted here that the promises made by God in covenant to Abraham were without condition. In each of the Genesis passages we have previously considered, he was promised blessings which God will not revoke. The first covenant made by God to Abraham was prefaced by the words “I will,” indicating that divine fulfilment and certainty concerning the land was in view and in Genesis 17 the covenant is said to be everlasting. Other aspects are emphasized elsewhere.

The covenantal blessings were varied. Not only was a landpromised, but also a throne and a king to occupy the throne. A kingdom would have universal dominion with the nation which God had chosen at its head. Various parts of the Old and New Testaments describe all this in detail.

But what about the Church? Is it the successor to Israel and merely an amplification of what we have considered with the addition of Gentiles who have been saved in this Day of Grace? No. There are many points of difference revealed which show important and remarkable distinctions between Israel and the Church. Let us begin by thinking of the present period, which commenced at Pentecost, when God began calling out a people from among both the Jews and the Gentiles to be a unique company; everyone born again in the present period is a member of this body. This great company, the Church, is never forecast or described in the Old Testament Scriptures. In the New Testament it is variously spoken of as “The Church which is His body” or “the Bride of Christ.” Our consideration has compared and contrasted Israel and the Church and we should remember that each is clearly distinct from the other, is extremely precious to God, and is at the center of His eternal purpose. The calling out of the Church will conclude at the Rapture and at that time God will begin to deal with Israel as His chosen people again. All Jews and Gentiles who are saved in the present day do not claim such “chosen” identity again; they are “all one in Christ Jesus” (Gal 3:22-28).

[Boogieman]

Yeah, sorry, but the verses you quoted very neatly debunk your own thesis:

“37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.”

Unless you can point out where the Second Coming already happened at the time of the destruction of the temple in 70 AD... because it seems every single Christian on the planet at the time (and all the non-Christian writers as well) missed that event, which we have been told the entire world will witness.

[justa-hairyape]

Extra galactic. And a thousand is probably just a good estimate. Could be shorter, could be longer. Need a proper Galactic year conversion scale to get a good feel. Wonder what the galactic year is based upon ? Hmmm. Lol.

[smvoice]

2 TIMOTHY 2:15 is a valuable Scripture to a saved person who is studying God’s word. It was given to Paul by God for a reason

[dartuser]

If you believe that Matt 24 was fulfilled in AD 70 then the Second Coming happened already (Matt 24:30). Can you point to a historical account of the sun and moon darkened, the stars falling from the sky ... or the Jesus coming on the clouds of heaven and everyone saw it? I must have missed that in the Jerusalem Times of 70 AD.

And if the Second Coming happened already ... then Rev 6-19 has already happened since chapter 19 IS the Second Coming. I must have missed where 1/3 of mankind was killed or I don't read anywhere in history that all life in the sea died, or that 100 lb hailstones wreaked havoc on the world. And on and on ...

And, since the end of Revelation says these things are going to happen soon, if you are to be consistent in your approach to "this generation will not pass away" then you must accept "the time is soon" in Rev. as being fulfilled already... and we must be in the new heaven and new earth now ... well into chapter 22 of Rev. So Satan must now be bound and in fact gone to the lake of fire.

So if Satan is already in the lake of fire ... what exactly are your exorcist priests casting out in this day and age?

The list of inconsistencies is voluminous.

[Boogieman]

Yep. Really, the only reason people focus on “the rapture” and give it a special name is because they want to try and separate it from the second coming, even though every verse about it makes it clear that they happen just about the same time.

Sorry, but nobody is getting an “express pass” to meet Jesus early.

[dartuser]

But there are very definite statements made by our Lord Jesus Christ Himself that positively negate any such view and make it evident that this solemn period of judgement is still ‘in the future’

Here here ...

[Boogieman]

“The tribulation period is ALL ABOUT God’s wrath upon the earth”

No, it’s about tribulation, which is why Jesus called it the great tribulation, not the great wrath. “Tribulation” doesn’t mean wrath, it means a time of trouble, affliction, or suffering. Jesus also called them “birth pains” in Matthew 24:8, for as there are birth pains before a new child is born, there is a great tribulation before the new earth is born.

You can’t assert that Christians are not appointed to trouble, suffering, or affliction, since we are told many times that such things will come to us if we follow Christ, and that we must persevere in order to receive our reward.

[justa-hairyape]

Think rapture refers to souls or spirits if you will. Ressurection is physical. So for example: a soul can transfer light years (rapture), and then be positioned into a physical form (resurrection). Or rapture is beaming in Star Trek, and ressurection is being reassembled in the transporter. Lol.

[Just mythoughts]

What is today, called the nation of Israel was never before in history called Israel. Israel was the name change given to Jacob. After Solomon there was a ‘civil’ war and Judah became the House of Judah and the House of Israel .. biblically speaking. The House of Israel were 10 of the 12 tribes and their land was called Samaria. Two tribes made up the House of Judah. The House of Israel were taken away captive by the Assyrians and have not since been called the House of Israel, and part of their punishment was they would no longer know who they were...

The Heavenly Father ‘divorced’ the House of Israel (Jeremiah 3: 8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.)

These two House will NOT be rejoined until the return of Christ. Ezekiel 37: 15The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, 16Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: 17And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. 18And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these? 19Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand. 20And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes. 21And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: 22And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: 23Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

The ‘church’ compromises of all believers... however, there were certain promises made to the House of Judah and the House of Israel. Unfortunately the majority of those from the House of Israel have NO clue of whence they came.

[Boogieman]

“Jesus Kingdom will not be of the earth - John 18:36”

It says not of THIS world. Revelation also tells us there will be a NEW earth on which New Jerusalem will descend, and from which Jesus will reign over the kings of the earth. So I think we can safely say it will be on some earth, just not this one.

[Just mythoughts]

That word ‘world’ can also mean ‘age’.. the ‘new’ earth will be the removal of all things that are offensive to the Creator. The Heavenly Father declared that Jerusalem was His most favorite spot of all His creation .. and He intends on reclaiming it.

Ezekiel 16

1 Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,

3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite.

4 And as for thy nativity, in the day thou wast born thy navel was not cut, neither wast thou washed in water to supple thee; thou wast not salted at all, nor swaddled at all.

5 None eye pitied thee, to do any of these unto thee, to have compassion upon thee; but thou wast cast out in the open field, to the lothing of thy person, in the day that thou wast born.

6 And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.

7 I have caused thee to multiply as the bud of the field, and thou hast increased and waxen great, and thou art come to excellent ornaments: thy breasts are fashioned, and thine hair is grown, whereas thou wast naked and bare.

8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord God, and thou becamest mine.

9 Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.

10 I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers’ skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.

11 I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.

12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.

13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.

14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord God.

15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.

16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.

17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,

18 And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.

19 My meat also which I gave thee, fine flour, and oil, and honey, wherewith I fed thee, thou hast even set it before them for a sweet savour: and thus it was, saith the Lord God.

20 Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter,

21 That thou hast slain my children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?

22 And in all thine abominations and thy whoredoms thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, when thou wast naked and bare, and wast polluted in thy blood.

23 And it came to pass after all thy wickedness, (woe, woe unto thee! saith the Lord God;)

24 That thou hast also built unto thee an eminent place, and hast made thee an high place in every street.

25 Thou hast built thy high place at every head of the way, and hast made thy beauty to be abhorred, and hast opened thy feet to every one that passed by, and multiplied thy whoredoms.

26 Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger.

27 Behold, therefore I have stretched out my hand over thee, and have diminished thine ordinary food, and delivered thee unto the will of them that hate thee, the daughters of the Philistines, which are ashamed of thy lewd way.

28 Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians, because thou wast unsatiable; yea, thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet couldest not be satisfied.

29 Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea; and yet thou wast not satisfied therewith.

30 How weak is thine heart, saith the Lord God, seeing thou doest all these things, the work of an imperious whorish woman;

31 In that thou buildest thine eminent place in the head of every way, and makest thine high place in every street; and hast not been as an harlot, in that thou scornest hire;

32 But as a wife that committeth adultery, which taketh strangers instead of her husband!

33 They give gifts to all whores: but thou givest thy gifts to all thy lovers, and hirest them, that they may come unto thee on every side for thy whoredom.

34 And the contrary is in thee from other women in thy whoredoms, whereas none followeth thee to commit whoredoms: and in that thou givest a reward, and no reward is given unto thee, therefore thou art contrary.

35 Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of the Lord:

36 Thus saith the Lord God; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them;

37 Behold, therefore I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all them that thou hast loved, with all them that thou hast hated; I will even gather them round about against thee, and will discover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness.

38 And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy.

39 And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place, and shall break down thy high places: they shall strip thee also of thy clothes, and shall take thy fair jewels, and leave thee naked and bare.

40 They shall also bring up a company against thee, and they shall stone thee with stones, and thrust thee through with their swords.

41 And they shall burn thine houses with fire, and execute judgments upon thee in the sight of many women: and I will cause thee to cease from playing the harlot, and thou also shalt give no hire any more.

42 So will I make my fury toward thee to rest, and my jealousy shall depart from thee, and I will be quiet, and will be no more angry.

43 Because thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, but hast fretted me in all these things; behold, therefore I also will recompense thy way upon thine head, saith the Lord God: and thou shalt not commit this lewdness above all thine abominations.

44 Behold, every one that useth proverbs shall use this proverb against thee, saying, As is the mother, so is her daughter.

45 Thou art thy mother's daughter, that lotheth her husband and her children; and thou art the sister of thy sisters, which lothed their husbands and their children: your mother was an Hittite, and your father an Amorite.

46 And thine elder sister is Samaria, she and her daughters that dwell at thy left hand: and thy younger sister, that dwelleth at thy right hand, is Sodom and her daughters.

47 Yet hast thou not walked after their ways, nor done after their abominations: but, as if that were a very little thing, thou wast corrupted more than they in all thy ways.

48 As I live, saith the Lord God, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters.

49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

51 Neither hath Samaria committed half of thy sins; but thou hast multiplied thine abominations more than they, and hast justified thy sisters in all thine abominations which thou hast done.

52 Thou also, which hast judged thy sisters, bear thine own shame for thy sins that thou hast committed more abominable than they: they are more righteous than thou: yea, be thou confounded also, and bear thy shame, in that thou hast justified thy sisters.

53 When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters, and the captivity of Samaria and her daughters, then will I bring again the captivity of thy captives in the midst of them:

54 That thou mayest bear thine own shame, and mayest be confounded in all that thou hast done, in that thou art a comfort unto them.

55 When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.

56 For thy sister Sodom was not mentioned by thy mouth in the day of thy pride,

57 Before thy wickedness was discovered, as at the time of thy reproach of the daughters of Syria, and all that are round about her, the daughters of the Philistines, which despise thee round about.

58 Thou hast borne thy lewdness and thine abominations, saith the Lord.

59 For thus saith the Lord God; I will even deal with thee as thou hast done, which hast despised the oath in breaking the covenant.

60 Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee in the days of thy youth, and I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant.

61 Then thou shalt remember thy ways, and be ashamed, when thou shalt receive thy sisters, thine elder and thy younger: and I will give them unto thee for daughters, but not by thy covenant.

62 And I will establish my covenant with thee; and thou shalt know that I am the Lord:

63 That thou mayest remember, and be confounded, and never open thy mouth any more because of thy shame, when I am pacified toward thee for all that thou hast done, saith the Lord God.

[caww]

.........“There is no Jew, there is no gentile” - or do you disagree with that?”.....

Jews and Gentiles are separate in the sense of birth,.. they are the same in the sense of inheritance in Christ..... though Jews were first in this sense, all those walls come down at the point of receiving Christ.

In Christ,there is no Jew, there is no Gentile, there are only those that have been redeemed! .. if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise...being clothed with Christ they share his position as Sons of God.

.....You state....The book of the Apocalypse is written to the christ-believing Jewish sect.

The book of Revelation opens with seven letters to seven churches..... ...they were literal churches at the time John wrote and as we know from Penticost there were more than just Jews as ‘his servants’...........Acts tells us the 3,000 people converted on the Day of Pentecost were “from every nation under Heaven,” .... Later Peter told people “The Holy Spirit came on [the Gentiles in Caesarea] as He had come on us at the beginning.... So needless saying the seven churches were Jews and Gentile believers, thus Revelations was written to ‘all’ believers.. the body of Christ.

....You also stated....”The rapture is not even written about in scripture.”...

What is called the rapture is the removal of the believers upwards, the church meets Jesus in the air... is when the living saints are transformed to be immortal like Christ.

If you do not believe in the rapture then how can you believe in the resurrection because they are both joined together as the same event, nearly simultaneously???....and this has to do with the transformation of both Jews and Gentiles, all in Christ, who are to be transformed, both the living and the dead..... The debate can be when it occurs but not that it does not occur.

1 Thess. 4 tells us... “For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.”....Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

..... We who are in Christ, keeping the faith are all going to participate in it no matter when it occurs. The idea is to be ready!

[Boogieman]

“Why would HE allow his Bride to suffer in the Tribulation?”

Why does Christ allow every Christian believer to suffer throughout our lives? Do you think that means He loves us less?

Just as you can’t forge strong steel without passing the iron through a furnace, you don’t create followers with strong faith by sparing them from suffering.

[justa-hairyape]

Oh yeah. And that moon too. Critical to biological timing.

[Ezekiel]

Great timing, a thread about going up! Who wants to actually break free? Elijah for one, so I've that covered twice further down.

Escape might seem like too much work. But like Andy Dufresne said,

"I guess it comes down to a simple choice, really: get busy living or get busy dying."

But here’s the kicker - there may be age after age after age BEFORE genesis 1.2 After all, it says “in the beginning”. It begs the question, “The beginning of what?”

The Torah is a big circle, divided into a yearly cycle of 54 readings. The celebration of Simchat Torah is big on making circuits:

The main celebrations of Simchat Torah take place in the synagogue during evening and morning services. In Orthodox as well as many Conservative congregations, this is the only time of year on which the Torah scrolls are taken out of the ark and read at night. In the morning, the last parashah of Deuteronomy and the first parashah of Genesis are read in the synagogue. On each occasion, when the ark is opened, the worshippers leave their seats to dance and sing with the Torah scrolls in a joyous celebration that can last for several hours.

>>>

The Simhat Torah festivities begin with the evening service. All the synagogue's Torah scrolls are removed from the ark and are carried around the sanctuary in a series of seven hakafot (circuits). Although each hakafa need only encompass one circuit around the synagogue, the dancing and singing with the Torah often continues much longer, and may overflow from the synagogue onto the streets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simchat_Torah

The last parsha of Deuteronomy is the 54th.

The first parsha of Genesis is the 1st.

They are read together in the morning: 54 and 1 joined together... 541 = "Israel"

The last words of the Torah are "all Israel". The first word is "in the beginning"

Joined together in a circle, with singing and dancing because the good news is "all Israel in the beginning".

Even the sum of that phrase [all 50 + Israel 541 + in the beginning 913 = 1504] contains the same numerals as Israel, 541. And then as written by way of the normal column placement, pick any column, the same message is going on:

50 541 913

50 541 913

50 541 913

13 = echad, one as in E Pluribus Unum, "out of many, one"
541 = Israel
59 = the time on the clock before a new hour, a new beginning, which is closer than people might think because

59 Productions is the company responsible for launching Apollo 11 from the Washington Monument.

It all adds up: 13 + 541 + 59 = 613

Rapture? That's a convoluted theory that obscures a simple message about going up. There's a great pun on the face of that Greek word [ἁρπάζω], but that's for another post perhaps.

The appropriate song lyrics go like this:

Am echad, lev echad. Kol Israel achim, translated:

One people, one heart, all Israel are brothers.

One heart. It explains why the phrase "the 4th of July" [ה-ד' ביולי] is composed of the same letters as "Jewish heart" [לב יהודי].

Or why the same Hebrew letters (ג-ו gimel vav) spell Jew, Joe, "Go!", or GW the initials of George Washington the father of the nation, upon whose monument the greatest achievement in human history was projected for its 50th anniversary... as a witness to all nations, then the end will come.

there may be age after age after age BEFORE genesis 1.2

The Spirit of Elohim in Genesis 1:2 is traditionally identified as a dove. Columbia, the name of the command module and the personification of America = "dove"

Discover the unknown.

Where's Elijah? It's the week of his parsha, time for the big plan to save civilization from its lockdown establishment mindset that discovers nothing new. Elijah was the guy famous for "going up" in a whirlwind to heaven without seeing death. In Hebrew, to say living in a dream world is to say, "living in a movie." Indeed, right on the National Mall, going up in a whirlwind:

 

Way to go, God! He's a funny guy, because there's even a pun on that:

Redeemer = goel [גואל], Go El!

And something for the kid in everyone, goel permutes to LEGO. Got that visual covered as well, because out of Legoland Florida, the anti-Florida Man:

LEGO Builds Life-Size Astronaut to Celebrate Apollo 11

astronaut: from astro- "star" + Greek nautes "sailor"

Ah, now I get it, where to find Elijah, the man famous for going up in a whirlwind -- the astronaut, the star sailor. Florida obviously. Cañaveral, meaning "reed bed". Cana, reed... Reed-emer, the hits just keep coming.

It goes on, or up as it were.

“The beginning of what?”

As I mentioned above, the first word of the Torah - bereshith - equals 913.

That's the same as America spelled out:

אלף מם ריש יוד קוף הא

Just thought I'd point that out. Andy's escape was hidden in plain sight by the "cupcake" on the wall, who lived in the beginning, in One Million Years B.C.

Nobody thought to look there. Genius. Exceedingly ironic too, because what red-blooded American man wouldn't want to touch that cupcake on the wall? Obviously nobody in charge of the prisoners had any vision.

To infinity and beyond...

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Thanks but I disagree fully with your view. I’m sure comfortable with my view and you holding some other view.

Stay close. I’ll collar you.

[mdmathis6]

We are both right and wrong ...the word I should have said was rapiemur which is in the passage cited in the Vulgate!

Actually the term used is “Rapiemur” and Harpazio is the greek term Origin of the term...”to be caught up.
The popular English word for the catching-up event is “rapture”, a word derived, as are so many English words, from the Latin language. In fact, when St. Jerome, who lived from approximately 347 to 419 AD, penned the Latin Vulgate translation of scripture, he used the verb rapiemur in I Thessalonians
4:17 as follows: I The 4:17 Deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur [suddenly caught up] cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus.
I The 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be suddenly caught up [rapiemur] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.
Rapiemur is derived from the root verb rapio, which means to carry off or to seize someone or something.(where we get our word for raptor or such as hawks and eagles who carry off their prey) The English words “rapt” and “rapture” stem from this Latin verb. Therefore, the English term “rapture” was appropriately borrowed from the Latin Vulgate as a description of what will happen at that moment based on I Thessalonians 4:17.

So yes rapture was found in the Vulgate and it is where protestants derive the notion for “the Rapture”. Sorry for my error Cronos and I’ll see you in the “middle of the air”. But come on you always wanted to fly...right?

[LeonardFMason]

You are correct. The Believer is never promised a life without trial.

Will true believers be affected by the judgment of the vials and bowls during the Tribulation period or will the judgments only target the ungodly?

The seven golden vials are called the seven last plagues (Rev 15:1) because their outpouring climaxes the physical judgments falling on creation during the seven-year Tribulation period closed by the return of the Lord to earth to claim His throne. The question is whether believers in that age will be exempt from such judgments simply because they are believers.

The answer must be a simple NO! Scripture holds out no such assurance. As earth and those morally identified with its society come under divine judgment, believers living alongside them endure the same general conditions – war, famine, pestilence, and catastrophe. The society of earth is described by the phrase “them that dwell upon the earth” (Rev 3:10) better translated “earth dwellers.” Such are perfectly comfortable with the unrighteous, immoral and licentious rule of the satanic puppets wielding power on earth. The phrase is repeated a number of times in the Revelation as if to emphasize their character. They belong to earth. Believers stand out under such conditions, and draw the spiritual stamina required from trust in the God Who brought the gospel of the Kingdom (Matt 24:14) to them. As a result, they have the knowledge of this God as their shield in such trying times. These believers have the same divine support as believers today; the promises of Scripture, the power of the Spirit, and the presence of the Savior with them. In addition to the physical judgments sweeping over earth, it should also be remembered that these believers also have to face the bitter antagonism of the satanic rulers of that day (Rev 13:7) who are determined to wipe out all testimony for Christ. The situation of the four Hebrew boys facing a furnace under Babylonian conditions paints a prophetic picture of believers in the time of Tribulation.

The question implies an understanding of prophetic truth that may need some clarification. It is suggested that the following be examined with an open Bible.

Truth (1) – The Rapture occurs before the Tribulation. It must be assumed that the questioner knows that the Church will not pass through the Tribulation. The Church age will be closed and every believer from this dispensation of grace will be called to meet their Lord in the air at the Rapture (1Thes 4:13-18). The Rapture, in keeping with the timetable set out in the Seventy Weeks Prophecy of Daniel (Dan 9:25-27), opens a generation (Matt 24:34) that sees the signing of a seven-year peace covenant in Israel which ends with the return of the Lord to set up His Kingdom. This covenant, some years after the Rapture of the Church, marks the reinstallation of Israel in the divine timetable, the opening of Daniel’s seventieth week, and simultaneously the commencement of the Tribulation period that precedes Christ’s return to earth.

Truth (2) – The gospel is preached during the Tribulation. That there will be many believers on earth during the Tribulation period is evident in Scripture. Again, those who in that dark day of severe persecution in the Tribulation, evidence their faith in Christ by their identification with these “brethren” are called “sheep.” The innumerable company who are moving into the millennial kingdom are identified by the elder to the Apostle John as “These are they that have come out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the lamb” (Rev 7:9-17). These are living believers (there is nothing about martyrdom in the passage) who have come through the terrible days of the Tribulation and suffered much. They have suffered, not only from bitter persecution of men moved by Satan, but also from the general conditions of the Tribulation. Note the hunger, the thirst, the burning heat and the tears mentioned.

Truth (3) – The fullness of the Gentiles is seen in souls saved in the Tribulation. Scripture (Rom 11:25) makes clear that the Church is not the “fullness of the Gentiles,” or all Israel would be saved when the Church is raptured. This “fullness” is seen at the close of the Tribulation in the innumerable company mentioned (Rev 7:9-17). These are the Gentile fruit of the preaching of the Gospel of the Kingdom (Matt 24:14) carried across earth by the 144,000 of Israel to announce that coming King. The gospel is the same gospel as we preach, except the emphasis falls on the coming King and Kingdom. To assume that any soul who has heard the gospel in this age will have a second chance in the Tribulation is to go far beyond Scripture. This could be a soul-destroying soporific for a sinner in this gospel age. Clearly these souls in Tribulation days are hearing the glorious message for the first time. Those who repent and believe find peace and joy in Christ.

Truth (4) – Faith does not provide exemption from the Tribulation judgments. God is dealing with a rebellious earth and pouring out judgment upon society to invite repentance (Rev 16:8-11). There is not a single promise guaranteeing believers exemption from the effects of those judgments upon the earth simply because they are believers. Admittedly there are occasions when God deals specifically with the rebels and warns the believers.

Examples of such discrimination are readily found: (a) Under the fifth trumpet (Rev 9:1-12) men fall victim to the painful sting of the locusts while “those with the seal of God in their foreheads” are exempt. These sealed men (Rev 7:1-8:14:1) are specially preserved for a purpose.

(b) Under the first vial judgment (Rev 16:2) “the noisome and grievous sore” affected only those who declared their allegiance to the beast by taking his mark.

(c) When God warns His saints to flee from Babylon lest they share in her physical destruction (Rev 18:4). Such learn to trust their God.

Believers in this gospel age live under somewhat similar conditions. We are privileged to live in an age when God is acting as Savior (1Tim 2:3) yet, because of sin, mankind is subject to danger, disaster, disease, and death. Because we are men we live under the same shadows and there is not a single promise given to us as believers that we are exempt from the ills that beset mankind simply because we are believers. Believers die in aircraft accidents, are swept away in tsunamis, are smitten with cancer, become disabled and die as men die. Yet, in these very circumstances, the believer learns to trust his God, to draw upon divine strength in the hour of need and leave all in the hand of the Father. The Son of God walked on earth with the same confidence (Heb 12:1-3).