Why?
There's gonna be a HELL of a lot of sorting out to do!!
Posted on 06/22/2019 3:25:07 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
They do NOT rise up first to 'Mary and the Saints'; then to be passed on to GOD.
Do you realize that popes have resigned in the past?
Granted, this was the first time that the renunciation was due to physical infirmity, but all is novel in the post Vatican II era.
In addition, according to his own words at the time of resignation and after, Benedict XVI resigned willingly.
There are some things from the Catholic faith that I think aren’t so bad. I like the idea of some of the repition and structures of praying the rosary. But it seems that that is mostly (all?) to Mary.
There was one thing I just read about being a mother, and praying some prayer of grief(?) through Mary’s experience.
Started off with Mary understanding what it meant to be a refugee with a small child.
Mary frantic about her lost child (Jesus was at the temple).
Watching her son being crucified. A spear thrust into His side.
That one was interesting, and helpful as we pray for our children as they struggle.
Of course, we can also just formulate those same prayers knowing that Jesus knows how we feel. He as a young child in a strange land. Tempted by Satan for 40 days. Grieving over his friend Lazuras. And of course unjustly condemned and crucified.
Still - I think there is something to be learned from some of the Catholic traditions.
What don't the Francis-fans just do the honest thing and become well-and-truly Episcopalian? Same periodic conventions ("synods") to decide what their doctrine is going to be for the next couple of years; and better music.
As Jesus taught, "the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are very much mistaken."
"When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at His teaching." ((Matthew 22:32-33)
When the Catholics heard THIS; they decided to ignore it:
Call no man father.
You been given many chances in the past; on multiple threads; to give the Catholic definition of what "Dead in Christ" means.
So far; I've seen NOTHING from ANY Catholic on the subject.
Is this yet another verse that gets shunted to the side??
1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 New King James Version (NKJV)14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who [a]sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are [b]asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
HMMMmmm...
An interesting order of events; if one believes the Catholic claim that when Christians die they immediately go either to be with the Lord in Heaven or to purgatory.
No, we decided the proper interpretation was he way Saints Paul and the other NT teachers took it.
28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.
Whoa whoa WHOA!!!
I thought the 'Official' teaching on this is that the GOOD folks go to be with Christ when they die.
I am SO confused...
Heaven, Purgatory or Hell.
Oh WE did; eh?
I guess that WE also decided to IGNORE Jesus' plain words of 'Call no man father',; too.
And WE must have decided that THESE verses were wrong; too: John 5:28-29
Man; ya just gotta love a 'religion' that has cafeteria rules!
"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out-those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.
???? I've got no problem with those verses. I believe in the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting, amen.
My dear, forgive me if I find St. Paul’s interpretation more credible than yours.
...all who are in their graves...
THIS one??
Rome has NO one in their graves.
Explain that to the lurkers.
The bodies are all in the graves. (Assuming we're talking about people whose mortal remains have been buried.) These bodies will rot away, but nevertheless, they will rise on the Last Day --- we call this the "resurrection of the body."
Even if a person were hit directly on the head with a hydrogen bomb and their incinerated molecules were scattered in a world-circling band of radioactive dust in the the stratosphere and eventually come down across all 24 time zones --- i.e. no identifiable remains --- we still believe in the resurrection of the body. However God chooses to do it, He will do it.
Once again, you are trumpeting something the Catholic Church does not teach (that nobody is in their graves.) My body will be in my grave until the Last Day. Then it will be rejoined to my soul. Then the General Judgment. And then, Heaven or Hell.
I renew my plea that you stop misrepresenting what the Catholic Church teaches. It is boundlessly aggravating.
Don't tell me what I believe. Tell me what YOU believe.
At least then, you'd have the advantage of accuracy.
Actually, while I support in principle the practice of ascertaining the validity and veracity of church teaching by examination of it in the light of ancient church teaching (the critical difference being that that latter is to be the only wholly inspired-of-God and substantive record of what the New Testament church believed, mainly Acts thru Rev., not the uninspired writings of Catholicism), yet it seems that those who hold that Catholic teaching is what modern councils interpret it to mean, and uphold Francis as the valid pope, and have an attitude of submission, are the ones more in line with historical papal teaching such as exhorts,
'the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastors," "to suffer themselves to be guided and led in all things that touch upon faith or morals by the Holy Church of God through its Supreme Pastor the Roman Pontiff," "of submitting with docility to their judgment," with "no discussions regarding what he orders or demands, or up to what point obedience must go, and in what things he is to be obeyed... not only in person, but with letters and other public documents ;" and 'not limit the field in which he might and must exercise his authority, " for "obedience must not limit itself to matters which touch the faith: its sphere is much more vast: it extends to all matters which the episcopal power embraces," and not set up "some kind of opposition between one Pontiff and another. Those who, faced with two differing directives, reject the present one to hold to the past, are not giving proof of obedience to the authority which has the right and duty to guide them," "Nor must it be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent." (Sources http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3578348/posts?page=14#14)
Why?
There's gonna be a HELL of a lot of sorting out to do!!
I believe KNOW that Catholics are TAUGHT to ignore the very plain words of Jesus: Call no man father.
What OTHER stuff you guys get taught is WAY beyond the function of this thread.
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