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To: ican'tbelieveit; af_vet_1981

“The idea that we have to retain a gift through our behavior, a gift that we couldn’t earn to begin with, leads to unsaved “Christians.”

No it doesn’t. Unsaved Christians are those who have not truly repented and accepted the salvation God has offered. There are also those who, according to Jesus:

“Other seed fell on rocky ground where it didn’t have much soil, and it grew up quickly since the soil wasn’t deep. 6 But when the sun came up, it was scorched, and since it had no root, it withered away....And the one sown on rocky ground—this is one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy. 21 But he has no root and is short-lived. When distress or persecution comes because of the word, immediately he falls away.” Matt 13

Hebrews 6 also says:

“For it is impossible to renew to repentance those who were once enlightened,
who tasted the heavenly gift,
who shared in the Holy Spirit,
who tasted God’s good word and the powers of the coming age,
and who have fallen away.”

That explicitly covers people who became Christians and then chose to reject Christ later.

If someone gives you a gift of money, you can keep it. You can invest and grow it. Or you can squander it. If you squander it, you may not only lose it, but be worse off than you were before.

I’m a baptist. I see no sign baptists “lose” more of our kids than do any other denomination. You cannot repent for your child. You cannot believe for your child. You cannot live for your child. They get to make choices and they don’t have to be ones you approve of. That is reality. Neither Calvinism nor Catholicism will stop that.

And all denominations suffer from non-believers living counterfeit lives. “Once saved, always saved” encourages it, but all have the problem.

This pastor seems to have believed he had a business relation with God: I do this, then God pays me for it. That is utterly wrong. He worshiped God the Genie, not God the Father. He was an employee, not a son. When he felt his wages were adequate compensation for his work, he quit.


110 posted on 06/07/2019 6:44:34 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools)
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To: Mr Rogers

My comment was to emphasize that there are “Christians” who have never accepted Christ as their savior; therefore “unsaved christians.” They never were saved to begin with.

Certainly once saved, always saved, can contribute in people who think they are saved and continue to live a life of sin. No different than a catholic attending every mass, every confession, saying every rosary. You must accept the gift given. All of the rest of it is our growth in Christianity, the pursuit to become more Christ-like.

And there are none more spiritually persecuted than those that accept the gift and are filled with the holy spirit. Spiritual warfare is deadly. But if the Christian is not persecuted by the Holy Spirit for sinful behavior, then you need to seriously question whether you have truly bended knee and accepted the gift.

But Christ states that you cannot be taken away from the Hand of God. It is a one way street.

Your growth (walk, works) after salvation helps you face adversity and withstand the temptations that will be lobbed toward you. And our reward will be in heaven, not here.


111 posted on 06/07/2019 10:00:56 AM PDT by ican'tbelieveit
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To: Mr Rogers
I’m a baptist. I see no sign baptists “lose” more of our kids than do any other denomination. You cannot repent for your child. You cannot believe for your child. You cannot live for your child. They get to make choices and they don’t have to be ones you approve of. That is reality. Neither Calvinism nor Catholicism will stop that.

Concur, it is neither new nor a particular group's problem. The pastor in the article had family crises (marriage, kids, etc.) that triggered this fall. PKs (Preachers' kids) can be notoriously difficult for a pastor to weather, as also can be a wife and trying to financially support a family.
112 posted on 06/07/2019 10:27:15 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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