Posted on 05/14/2019 12:13:01 PM PDT by fwdude
The way it also makes sense to me is if its post trib then the dead will rise to meet Jesus in the clouds to merely return to earth for the millennium reign.
Sounds like two Second Comings.
Pre or post? Don’t care, my ticket is punched and I’ve read the book and know how it ends.
I simply cannot understand how Satan can continue to blind the eyes of so many who openly profess to believe in Jesus.
“What” you say? Jesus himself said “he did no know many who used his name”
Why did Jesus say more than once, that some standing with him there would “SEE” him return in his glory? If he was lying or was a fool.
Even CJ Lewis wrote of this:
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“It is clear from the New Testament that they all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime. And worse still, they had a reason, and one which you will find very embarrassing. Their Master had told them so. He shared, and indeed created,their Delusion. He said in so many words, ‘this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.’
And he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else.” It is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible. ”
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Jesus told us that his Kingdom was not of this world, so why do so many wait with bated breath for him to return to build his kingdom here on Earth?
So many do not understand:
The Jews then responded to him, “What sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?”
19Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
20They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?”
21But the temple he had spoken of was his body.
22After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.
So instead of being t=like CJ Lewis and reasoning that Jesus was WRONG ....”And he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else.”
Perhaps one should read and discern what the Holy Scriptures actually say and QUESTION their own understanding before that of Christ’s.
Oh Jesus said when the could see the armies gathering the walls of Jerusalem to “Flee” and stop for nothing, not even to pick up a coat. Think on this a moment. You are at work, doing your job and you look up and 40 - 60% of the work force is gone. Hot coffee cups still on their desks, computer left on. What would you think, where did they go? Only those who listened to Jesus in those days knew what was happening nd they fled, just like he told them to.
Rapture, I suggest those that follow this belief listen to what Paul is saying. He said in an instant we will all be changed (in a twinkling of an eye)
Read some history; there were more than one historian recording history back in those days.
Why would a man think that “his” understanding has the power of veto over the words of Christ? The answer is simple: Satan, the Father of the lie. John 8:44
Sounds like two Second Comings.
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Good argument. Plenty of Bible scholars argue He came already. In 70 AD.
At the latest it would be mid-trib. The Bible clearly teaches the Church is not appointed to wrath, and as the bowl judgements are clearly spelled out as God pouring out his wrath it would follow the Church would not be present at that time.
the answer is BOTH
I think the total number of “raptures” mentioned in the bible is either 7 or 9. Enoch and Elijah are 2.
The pre-tribulation rapture is of the bride of Christ... those who’s names are already written in the Lamb’s book of life... “for we are not appointed unto wrath”
The post-tribulation rapture occurs towards the end of the tribulation period just before the final battle when Jesus comes with all the saints to conclude the tribulation period.
Those left on earth during the tribulation must not only accept Jesus as Lord, they must also “endure to the end” and NOT take the mark of the beast to be saved.
Exactly. Absolutely nobody believed this pre-trib nonsense until the last couple of centuries. There is one return of Christ and both Matthew 24 and Revelation teach that believers go through the tribulation. There is not a single verse that teaches that the rapture happens at any other time than the highly visible return of Christ. Believers are caught up in the air to meet the Lord and arrive back on earth with him as he continues his descent to judge the nations.
It’s all confused and confusing because pick a premise and dogma camp... any and all = theories of men who reason amongst themselves, like the Pharisees and Sadducees. History is prophecy.
Contrast Rebecca, who inquired of the Lord.
It’s not like what people are feasting on from all the end-times merchandize.
Same for the Messiah... he’s been turned into a bizarre “trans” caracature not resembling a man, his visage has been so marred.
Anyone expecting a down-to-earth, anti-establishment man who can show people how to love others and live simply without all the “intellectual” confusion and endless debate masquerading as Biblical knowledge? Didn’t think so.
A guy like that would be run out of Dodge or worse because he’d put the experts out of business, to put it nicely.
The jig is up for the established order.
In getting back to basics, the Messiah will lead many to his barn, where he will assign them to cleaning the animal stalls, if they even make it into the Kingdom. And they’ll be grateful and motivated, or else be cast out.
Besides, there’s a red flag tell concerning those who are gunning for the exits. A good way to efficiently get rid of dead weight is to inspire them to self-deport. Work smart, not hard.
Why would you want rapture before the coming? Miss out on all the fun during tribulation?
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
This short excerpt from Matthew 24 explicitly teaches that the rapture or gathering together of the elect is after the tribulation. It also shows that the return (singular) of Christ is not something hidden or secret but highly visible and impossible to miss. Tribulation is mentioned three times in the passage in reference to believers and not once does Jesus advise that there is a way to escape it.
I have never understood why people think the tribulation is seven years.
I thought Jesus laid it out pretty clear - the tribulation starts with the destruction of the temple and city - and then ends with his coming. I’ve never heard anyone explain how this is not the case.
yes. That passage seems to say the tribulation starts with the destruction of the temple and ends with his coming. Not seven years. What am I missing?
“But if the Rapture occurs at the end of the Tribulation, it must be simultaneous with the Second Coming, making them one event. Which is it: two events separated by seven years, or one event with two diverse purposes?
... The descriptions in Scripture of the Rapture and Second Coming respectively are so different in so many details that they could not possibly be describing the same occurrence.”
This is where the author sets up a false premise that undermines his own argument. The Second Coming is one event, and the First Resurrection (which some call “the rapture”) is a separate event that happens to coincide with the Second Coming. The fact that two events are described differently does not preclude the fact that those two events happen in close succession, as Scripture clearly describes.
“In contrast, at the Second Coming there is no resurrection until Antichrist is defeated, he and the false prophet have been “cast alive into a lake of fire” (Rev:19:20 ) and Satan has been bound in the “bottomless pit [for] a thousand years” (20:1-3) —none of which is even remotely related to the rapture of believers to heaven.”
This is simply false. Revelation describes both a first and a second resurrection. The author is citing verses about the second resurrection and then falsely claiming that “there is no resurrection” before that, when the book he is citing explicitly talks about a prior resurrection and even names them the “first” and “second” resurrection so there can be no mistaking the proper chronological order.
“Then, to “the first resurrection” which occurred at the Rapture...”
... and here the author completely destroys his own premise by admitting that there WAS a prior resurrection, even though he just a couple sentences before claimed there was none. The author claims this resurrection “occurred at the Rapture” but of course cites nothing to demonstrate that, because if we read the relevant verses of Revelation, it clearly takes place at the end of the tribulation.
EXACTLY!
That point is explicitly addressed in the essay. There will be those who believe in Jesus and are killed after the Rapture of the Church. These are the ones who are gathered.
“I thought Jesus laid it out pretty clear - the tribulation starts with the destruction of the temple and city - and then ends with his coming.”
It has to do with attempts to link the chronology of Revelation with the chronology of Daniel’s 70th “week”. Since that passage in Daniel describes a 7 year period which is divided into two 3 1/2 year periods at the midpoint, and Revelation describes several periods of days that are roughly 3 1/2 years as well, some people want to try and interpret one prophecy in light of the other to construct a timeline, and that of course leads to having to account for the whole 7 year period that Daniel talks about.
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