Posted on 04/17/2019 8:44:46 PM PDT by OddLane
Best to leave Notre Dame Cathedral as a ruin, much like the Greek Pantheons & Roman Coliseum.
That would respect the deep faith of the people who built it.
Not a multi-cult center as Macron wants. Why would anyone want to tour a secular building? Why would people want to make a pilgrimage to a mosque?
short answer: At a time in history when only priests were allowed to read and interpret the Bible, where Faith was based on what was seen and heard, visual cues were important communication techniques: i.e., Satan’s Demons are real and they will get you. Nobody is worshiping the gargoyles so they are not idols. If, as a symbol of the Wrath of The Almighty, they scare demons, that’s a good thing. It’s a timesaver for St. Michael’s crew. Or an early-warning system, even.
“Doesn’t that strike one as superstitious?”
It was built 900 years ago, just about everybody was superstitious at the time. Did you really expect any different? During the reformation, and for a couple hundred years after, the Protestants were even more superstitious than the Catholics. Honestly, you sound a bit superstitious now, after all, you seem to be genuinely concerned over the appearance drain pipe.
Quote~ It was built by man.
God wanted it.
It will be always the Church of God.
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I think man tried that before, I don’t think it turned out so well then either.
Genesis 11:1-6 King James Version (KJV)
1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.
4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do
Isaiah 66:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
1 Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog’s neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine’s blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
Acts 7:48-50 King James Version (KJV)
48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
It will Not be a secular building.
I know W Europe is a disaster, but there are still enough faithful to fight against such a thing.
Honest, if this were England i’d have LESS hope.
They seem to fold the MOST out of any country over there.
Ironic.
the vatican won’t even be standing in a few years at this point.
Farewell to eight hundred years of Christian art and history; farewell to Notre Dame Cathedral.
Quote~ It was built 900 years ago, just about everybody was superstitious at the time. Did you really expect any different? During the reformation, and for a couple hundred years after, the Protestants were even more superstitious than the Catholics. Honestly, you sound a bit superstitious now, after all, you seem to be genuinely concerned over the appearance drain pipe.
The reformation was about 500 years ago.
Demonic gargoyles are neither of God, nor are they drain pipes.
Quote~ short answer: At a time in history when only priests were allowed to read and interpret the Bible, where Faith was based on what was seen and heard, visual cues were important communication techniques: i.e., Satan’s Demons are real and they will get you. Nobody is worshiping the gargoyles so they are not idols. If, as a symbol of the Wrath of The Almighty, they scare demons, that’s a good thing. It’s a timesaver for St. Michael’s crew. Or an early-warning system, even.
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So if only the priests at that time, read and interpreted Scripture, then it was the priests that decided it was ok to adorn a “house of worship” with demonic gargoyles.
“The reformation was about 500 years ago.”
Yes, I am well aware of that. There weren’t any Protestants to compare with Catholics 900 years ago, but when they came on the scene they were more prone to superstition than the Catholics of the time were.
“Demonic gargoyles were neither of God, nor were they drain pipes.”
I no more claimed they were of God than I claimed that the Protestant Reformation occurred 900 years ago. For what it’s worth, I’m American Indian, and I came face to face with a demon in my home shortly after moving to my tribes’ reservation. You see a lot of weird things on indian reservations... anyhow, it looked nothing like a gargoyle, it’s body was thin and extremely tall, appearing something akin to smoke or shadow (you could see through it) but the eyes were like peering into a furnace. Medieval waterspouts are kind of cute by comparison.
Quote~ short answer: At a time in history when only priests were allowed to read and interpret the Bible, where Faith was based on what was seen and heard, visual cues were important communication techniques: i.e., Satan’s Demons are real and they will get you. Nobody is worshiping the gargoyles so they are not idols. If, as a symbol of the Wrath of The Almighty, they scare demons, that’s a good thing. It’s a timesaver for St. Michael’s crew. Or an early-warning system, even.
So what is being said here about the defense of using gargoyles, is to “ward off evil”
So if this is the case, then surely there must be Scripture which backs that up right?
This is what Jesus Himself said about this “practice”
Matthew 12:21-28 King James Version (KJV)
21 And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.
22 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
So a “muslim gargoyle” must be used to ward off muslims?
I’m just trying to understand how it is that evil protects one from evil.
So if the cathedral used empty kegs of beer, would that ward off the demons of alcoholism?
The Muslim gargoyle on a Catholic cathedral
Read more at https://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/deaconsbench/2010/09/the-muslim-gargoyle-on-a-catholic-cathedral.html#fa4cottx7dY3TL2t.99
Amen
the priests were dealing with superstitious people building civilization from the ashes of the Dark Ages.
Churches had “heads” of saints that moved, too. Statues that bled, more pieces of the cross and Lances of Longinus than you could shake a stick at - all kinds of ‘visual aids’ to impress people with the power of The Word over pagan spells and conjuring.
Notice the Scripture contained in Acts 19 which speaks of casting out demons, not by idols, but by the Name of Jesus Christ. In fact the idols were destroyed.
13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.
17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.
18 And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds.
19 Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.
20 So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.
As for demonic creatures, are you giving Satan credit for demons? Who created Heaven, Earth and Hell? Who created Satan and every single demon? Satan sure didn't. That boy can't create anything except trouble. Nor can Satan step in and save any demon that gets antsy from being cast into fire forever on the spot - one less guy on his side. The man upstairs is the final judge of all His creations. Should we pretend He only created cute things?
You keep posting a lot of scripture that has nothing to do with the subject.
I didn’t say ‘idols’ could ‘cast out’ spirits. The gargoyles aren’t idols - nobody worships them - they are scarecrows - a visual reminder to the demon what is going to happen to it if it persists in troublemaking -a picture of the agony of the pits of Hell - the anguish of separation from The Holy Spirit, the rendering of flesh from which there will be no escape. Worked pretty good with illiterate pagans, too.
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