Posted on 04/17/2019 8:44:46 PM PDT by OddLane
The flames that consumed the spire of Notre Dame and burned the 856-year-old church to its foundations could have been doused by the tears of the faithful. If France heeds calls to rebuild the cathedral as a reflection of what modern “French people want,” the new structure may be flooded by their tears.
The fire, whose origins remain under investigation, was initially reported to have left little more than medieval stones, rose windows, and — make of this what you will — its golden altar cross untouched.
Donations nearing $1 billion have already poured in from around the world, without government compulsion. French President Emmanuel Macron pledged to rebuild the church within five years, a timeline as ambitious (and potentially, as unrealistic) as his plans for the eurozone.
“We will rebuild the cathedral to be even more beautiful,” Macron said...
(Excerpt) Read more at intellectualtakeout.org ...
Good point!
Yer right of course! What do people think Downton Abbey was!?
Quote~ “R U one of those people who are afraid to read horoscopes or fortune cookies?”
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Fear? Not at all! Though I do have a reverent fear of my God Who tells me:
Colossians 2:20-22 King James Version (KJV)
20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
I Trust in the Word of God Who tells me not to place my trust in ouija boards, evil and demonic spirits, psychics, soothsayers, fortune tellers, traditions, commandments of men or any denomination.
I consult the Word of God Who became Flesh. I don’t place my faith in elected leaders, be they secular or religious.
demons aren't fallen angels.The Book of Jude says the fallen angels are chained in darkness - set aside. Unable to act. On death row hoping for a reprieve on Judgement Day. Angels have a physical appearance and were developed enough to have egos and reasoning abilities. Demons have always been disembodied spirits that have one-track minds - stuck on stupid. So the only 'army' the devil has to 'worship him' is a bunch of disembodied demons. Since demons are disembodied entities, then gargoyles are not 'their kind'.
But even a really stupid demon knows that while The Almighty allows the fallen angels to exist, even today, in a chained condition, demons are not going to get the same courtesy. A gargoyle warns of the agony they will be subjected to. Better to delay that Almighty flea flick into the fires, becoming a shish-ka-bob on the eternal grill for as long as possible and exist to fight another day, if one was a demon, yes? Similarly, if the purpose is to scare humans, since demons are disembodied, how does one portray them to a human, expecially a populace who must rely on pictures/visual cues? Gargoyles.
Water spouts do serve a useful purpose. But why create an appearance of evil when a simple drainpipe would serve the same purpose? would you put a simple drainpipe on an ornate church fascade where every inch is expressly designed to glorify The Word? It's like saying, why go with stained glass when plain glass will do? Why have statues of saints instead of portraits? But again, you're viewing the art through a 21st century lens.
and just for a personal opinion, beauty is surely in the eye of the beholder. I like gargoyles and don't think they are of themselves evil at all. Pretty scary, tho, some of them. Each one a journey into the mind of the artist and the depth of his faith. Each one designed to challenge the viewer's faith. How can portraying truth, the agony of eternal separation from The Holy, be evil?
My favorite was of the statue standing there holding his own head in his hands at waist level. An angel on either side. I presume that would be John the Baptist.
“...when Prime Minister Édouard Philippe announced an international competition for architects to submit proposals for “a new spire that is adapted to the techniques and the challenges of our era.”
I just spent some time searching to prove this was a spoof quote. Nope - that’s what he said! Crazy.
I could see rebuilding the roof with steel girders instead of 3,000 oak trees perhaps (if the girders would be hidden) - but to change the spires and stuff? That seems nuts.
Although iirc, the main spire was added on much later, so perhaps - but it looked like even the “new” spire of only 300 years old (or whatever) matched the style of the original.
Quote~ demons aren’t fallen angels.The Book of Jude says the fallen angels are chained in darkness - set aside. Unable to act. On death row hoping for a reprieve on Judgement Day. Angels have a physical appearance and were developed enough to have egos and reasoning abilities. Demons have always been disembodied spirits that have one-track minds - stuck on stupid. So the only ‘army’ the devil has to ‘worship him’ is a bunch of disembodied demons. Since demons are disembodied entities, then gargoyles are not ‘their kind’.
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I disagree. Assuming you are quoting the following from:
Jude V:6
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
(I believe these are the angels which cohabited with women.)
Take note of the following verses, and notably the correlation with the description of legion. Referring them as both, devils and unclean spirits. devil is satan, satan is a fallen angel.
Mark 5 King James Version (KJV)
5 And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.
11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.
12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.
13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea.
14 And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that was done.
15 And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.
16 And they that saw it told them how it befell to him that was possessed with the devil, and also concerning the swine.
17 And they began to pray him to depart out of their coasts.
18 And when he was come into the ship, he that had been possessed with the devil prayed him that he might be with him.
he sought to replace God and through his rebellion a third of the angels fell with him.
satan and his demonic army will be chained at a time in the future, then released, then captured again, then cast into the lake of fire.
Rather then quote scripture and verse, here is a pretty in depth explanation. You can disagree, but it’s where I stand.
https://www.biblesprout.com/articles/hell/satan-cast-heaven/
https://www.biblesprout.com/articles/hell/demons/
In fact, I would conclude with the following verses Revelation 12:1-9
interesting article, ‘to intimidate the sinners” “admonishment to the faithful”
The answer to your question is in the article:
“it has been a tradition since the church was first built in the 12th century for stonemasons to appear in caricature form as gargoyles.”
see #29 - the premise I started from.
I’ve never met a demon so I don’t know if it would be scared by stone - stories are it’s pretty scared of Consecrated things regardless of the material. Does it even know what rock is? For instance, my pom thinks there’s another pom living in the mirrored closet door. It’s what the people of that age thought that counts. :)
Demons are fallen angels.
Never underestimate their power and intelligence.
They only fear the power of God and not manmade statues.
my hope is the current pope will be gone by the time it is rebuilt.....this is a church and needs to remain a church...
Yes, Jude, also 2Peter2 and Revelation16. The fallen angels figure in the final days, after The Fifth trumpeter gives the keys of ‘the abyss’ to ‘the star’, leading to Rev 12’s battle when satan emerges from ‘the abyss’ with his buddies to take on St. Michael. Again. That is to say, satan can’t unleash his fallen angels without the key. Without heavenly intervention. He needs fallen angels to fight heavenly angels. The same key is used by an angel in Rev 20 to lock him back up, (guessing here: with no fallen angels left to keep him company). Satan has to resort to using unclean spirits and mortal armies for Armageddon. So I still think fallen angels and spirits/demons are two different critters.
But let me ask..is there any instance of a ‘regular’ angel actually entering the body of a man? If not, how could a ‘fallen’ angel get a power they didn’t already have? satan couldn’t give it to them. He can’t create (or won’t be able to until around Rev 12). The point of Mark is, if I were trapped as a disembodied spirit, I’d rush to Jesus for salvation and release, too. So I ‘get’ the 2000-strong ‘legion’ joining the race to the sea - once in eternity a chance of freedom from satan. What a gift!
There might have been angels that chased women, but the Nephelium were of Anak. Tall, svelt, WWF-ready eyecandy for gals used to, shall we say, more compact, men? Genesis 6, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Numbers.
Didn’t satan’s problems start from a jealousy issue with Job that escalated into violence? Book of Job. Jealousy, rage, coveting, inciting, plotting, vanity, hostility, etc. Count up all the potential sins in that ! And all this from a guy that The Almighty must have really liked a lot to let him wander to and fro, earning promotions and status. But Rev 21:27 spelled out his fate - “Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful..”
Thanks for the links :) . I still think gargoyles are just fancy scarecrows, tho
France owns it. Nationalized during the Revolution and for a few years a secular building, the Home of Reason or some such silly name. Napolean I restored it to the Catholic Church. Don’t know if actual ownership changed or he just restored the use, but if it did at some point the French Government regained ownership and leased it to the Church. Making it a secular “monument” makes as much sense as making it a Mosque. Which I’m sure will be suggested. Maybe just a corner.
Cult of Reason, just as silly but at least they recognized the Revolution was a cult.
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