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1 posted on 02/28/2019 5:47:05 AM PST by Gamecock
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To: Gamecock
We prayed for openness to different points of view, unity, communion, gracious listening, holy conferencing, empathetic feelings, and generosity of spirt.

It didn’t work.

That's because they prayed for the wrong things.

Pray for Truth, righteousness, and to follow God's will.

30 posted on 02/28/2019 6:25:49 AM PST by ShadowAce (Linux - The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: Gamecock
Traditional Plan, which reaffirms the denomination’s prohibitions against same-sex marriage and LGBTQ clergy, was approved.

Traditional Plan, which reaffirms the BIBLICAL prohibitions against same-sex marriage and LGBTQ clergy, was approved.

There. Fixed it.

The history of the Methodist Church is that they often split over controversy. The churches that adhere to the Bible thrive and the others die off.

31 posted on 02/28/2019 6:29:25 AM PST by jdsteel (Americans are Dreamers too!!!)
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To: Gamecock

I would assume that LGBT’s are like anyone else who may be seeking a spiritual community....finding one that welcomes them. That does not mean that all possibilities for finding such a community requires that they be welcoming to all LGBT’s.


32 posted on 02/28/2019 6:33:10 AM PST by yetidog
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To: Gamecock

Start your own LGBQTXYYZZV church.


33 posted on 02/28/2019 6:37:08 AM PST by Bonemaker (invictus" maneo)
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To: Gamecock

‘’We’ve lost 30% of our membership’

Including me. This guy doesn’t realize that the 30% left because of pastors/ministers/bishops like him. If Methodist leaders can’t follow the Bible without turning it’s words upside down, there is no point in attending. I left the Methodist Church a week after 9/11. My pastor blamed the terrorist attack on ‘world hunger’ and said from the pulpit ‘we must redistribute the wealth so that everyone has enough’. Buh-bye, Socialist Church.


36 posted on 02/28/2019 6:49:05 AM PST by originalbuckeye ('In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act'- George Orwell.)
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To: Gamecock

I’ve got news from the author. The homosexual marriage and LBGTQ...ABCDEFG, Pro Abortion crowd were never going to be the savior of the church. They don’t go to church in large numbers and indeed mock Christians at every opportunity. So, by rejecting the actual teachings of Christ and embracing left-wing pop culture, the UMC has alienated those who would actually join the church, without actually gaining the millennial hipster / everything goes / if it feels good do it crowd to replace them. The goal of the radical left is to destroy the church not “save it”. They will continue to apply pressure until the bible has been replaced with the little red book of progressive ideology and when that finally happens, they will still sit home on Sunday mornings. They won’t fill the pews or the offering plate and they will celebrate when the last church closes it’s doors for the last time.

And even if, the UMC could replace those old bible believing Christians with twice as many new progressives that reject everything that the Church and the Bible have taught for over 2000 years, “what good does it profit a (church) to gain the world and forfeit its soul?


37 posted on 02/28/2019 6:54:37 AM PST by NavVet ("You Lie!")
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To: Gamecock
* I went to the historic Episcopal 'Church of Saint Mary the Virgin' in NYC not long ago. The priest and his minions were prancing fairies.
* Then I went to a Methodist Church in South Carolina. The pastor was a bulldagger, aka a butch lesbian.
* I've had it with church
38 posted on 02/28/2019 6:59:41 AM PST by olepap (Your old Pappy)
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To: Gamecock
“I shifted my own prayers to, “Lord, please melt the hardened hearts and smite everyone who intends to vote against the One Church Plan.” This plan, recommended by the UMC bishops, aimed to give more discretion to local churches and annual conferences in LGBTQ inclusion, ministry, and mission.”

Violent SOB, isn’t he?

39 posted on 02/28/2019 7:13:05 AM PST by ConservativeMind (Trump: Befuddling Democrats, Republicans, and the Media for the benefit of the US and all mankind.)
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To: Gamecock

Scripture supersedes political correctness.


40 posted on 02/28/2019 7:13:16 AM PST by From The Deer Stand
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To: Gamecock

It seems the author wants to apply secular political methods to unite disparate people to save the UMC physical/financial. I wonder what the author’s perspective is reading & contemplating Matthew 4:1-10? Leading the flock astray weakens His church.
Salvation of the brethren was not mentioned, that is the sole mission of His church. Salvation of the church body/property may seem a sound business persuit but it yields to temptation (”bread alone”) vs seeking salvation of the brethren.
Welcoming sinners seeking the Lord YES, bowing to sinners seeking the world, NO.


41 posted on 02/28/2019 7:15:16 AM PST by ClockDoc ( - Let the churches attend to the poor and the Gov. attend to our enemies.)
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To: Gamecock

When the writer’s prayers are not answered, “God had business elsewhere.” So, God was not paying attention to the right things, because, you know, God can’t be everywhere and He missed this one.

If he were talking that way about a human being, it would be an insulting put-down. I think I would pray about that attitude, too. How can we really know what God should do?

About all I’d say to the writer is to pray for understanding of why those prayers were not answered.


42 posted on 02/28/2019 7:31:10 AM PST by Cincinnatus.45-70 (What do DemocRats enjoy more than a truckload of dead babies? Unloading them with a pitchfork!)
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To: Gamecock
John Wesley was part of the Pentecostal Holiness movement, with much emphasis on righteous living (holiness). And yes, part of what Wesley had to deal with in his day was teaching holiness in a world of sexual debauchery (even in his day).

He was kicked out of the Anglican church for trying to reform it to letting in people who were admitted drunkards. But he wasn't trying to get the Anglican church to support drunkenness or alcoholism, just get the church to let them attend church. Nobody is saying gays can't attend church, just don't get the rest of us to applaud gay-dism or whatever you want to call it.

The left likes to conflate tolerance with approval and say if you ain't approving of this sin or that sin, you ain't tolerant of people who habitually do those sins. The left running the United Methodist church today would kick out Wesley for preaching too much holiness.

45 posted on 02/28/2019 7:59:32 AM PST by Tell It Right (1st Thessalonians 5:21 -- Put everything to the test, hold fast to that which is true.)
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To: Gamecock

Would you like a little whine with that cheese?


46 posted on 02/28/2019 8:03:03 AM PST by rcofdayton
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To: Gamecock
What now for the UMC?

Pretty soon they'll be taking the "United" out of "United Methodist Church" would be my prediction.

47 posted on 02/28/2019 8:11:26 AM PST by DoodleDawg
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To: Gamecock
This author keeps speaking of all the prayers they have made. But it seems that they keep praying for God to change His mind.

There's no need for prayer. They just need to follow the direction He has already given.

48 posted on 02/28/2019 8:15:25 AM PST by Repealthe17thAmendment
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To: Gamecock

I love the silly self-serving theology worthy of a sophomore in high school, such as the Holy Spirit doesn’t move from the top down but from the bottom up. That is, local congregations should do what they please since the decision by the whole Methodist church goes against the grain of leftist demands.

Believe me, if the Methodist Church endorsed homosexuality and same-sex marriage, this same nutcase would be saying the Holy Spirit moves from the top down and not the bottom up so conservative parishes have to conform.

So typical of a radical leftists. Choice for me but not for thee.


49 posted on 02/28/2019 8:22:19 AM PST by WashingtonSource
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To: Gamecock

Reading all posts with interest.


52 posted on 02/28/2019 8:49:42 AM PST by Ciexyz (I have one issue and it's my economic well-being.)
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To: Gamecock

Oh, did those hateful Methodist decide to follow the Word of God?


53 posted on 02/28/2019 8:53:28 AM PST by 48th SPS Crusader (I am an American. Not a Republican or a Democrat)
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To: Gamecock
It must be recognized that the "One Church" plan was a plan promoted by the UMC North American bishops and the author of the article is a retired UMC North American bishop - William H. Willimon. When he speaks about the "One Church" plan it was a plan drafted and supported by his leadership friends in the UMC.

Throughout the article there are so many arrogant self-serving statements by Mr Willimon.

At some point I shifted my own prayers to, “Lord, please melt the hardened hearts and smite everyone who intends to vote against the One Church Plan.” This plan, recommended by the UMC bishops, aimed to give more discretion to local churches and annual conferences in LGBTQ inclusion, ministry, and mission. It was summarily trashed early in the voting; the rival Traditional Plan, which reaffirms the denomination’s prohibitions against same-sex marriage and LGBTQ clergy, was approved.

Then he lies about the traditional plan, which REAFFIRMED long standing UMC tradition and teaching, saying:

The misnamed Traditional Plan—little in the 200-year tradition of American Methodism justifies such punitive, exclusionary measures

So in crazy Mr Willimon's eyes, the Traditional Plan which reaffirmed (by his own words) longstanding UMC tradition and teaching yet somehow has little in that 200 year tradtion to justify it. How is a reaffirmation of longstanding position NOT justification for it?

He mumbles: We bishops believed in unity but couldn’t figure out how to lead it. But clearly the bishops thought the One Church Plan WAS the way to lead the church. I guess he can't dare admit their leadership not only failed, their leadership course was rejected.

Again he lies: (and he's a UMC bishop)

In the four decades I’ve been an ordained leader in the UMC, we have lost 30 percent of our membership. Our response? Spend millions of dollars and hours of work to decide who else we can exclude.

Within the UMC of North America, its bishops, its regional conferences, its national agencies, its seminaries and its churches have not, altogether, been spending millions of dollars rejecting the LGBT political agenda. There has been a de facto accepting of that agenda in many places at every level of the UMC. That too may not be universal, but there has also not been univeral North American UMC agendas against the LGBT agendas. And whereever there has been no outright opposiotion to the LGBT agenda, there has been a look-the-other-way de facto accepting of it, when there has not been outright overt application of it, which there has been plenty of.

Mr Willimon should be called on by the promotors of the Traditional Plan to name where exactly were the millions of dollars spent "to decide who else" the UMC should exclude. I don't think he can identify a penny.

Mr Willimon Said: What now for the UMC? There will be significant losses from LGBTQ Christians and their allies who have given up on the UMC, along with losses from those for whom the UMC will never be confined, closed, and conservative enough.

I think he knows his Progressive UMC members well enough to know that they have no intention of leaving the UMC over this particular loss on the LGBT agenda. I think HE KNOWS they are committed to the idea: O.K., next time.

In re: As for those in the global church who participated in this smackdown of North American Methodist mission and evangelism, they may soon regret the loss of financial support from a considerably weakened North American Methodism.

Maybe the churches in Africa and Asia don't particularly think they require North American UMC colonialism any longer.

This next statement of Mr Willimon is TOTALLY self serving: First, no fundamentally helpful decisions will ever come out of any General Conference, no matter how much prayer precedes it. The General Conference is no longer a viable means of governing the church.

The process was fine, for decades, as long as the Liberal leaning bishops like Mr Willimon were winning, but suddenly when the process is no longer serving them, to him it can only mean the process is bad, or wrong. It certainly cannot mean him and his friends were wrong. /sarc

He laments that: In this Special General Conference we have now declared ourselves to be the church of the aged. The average UM is white and 61 years old.

But he cannot acknowledge that the ever increasing Liberal trend of the UMC is part cause of that, as during the same period the growth of Christian churches in North America has been more with more Conservative churches than the more Liberal "mainline" churches like the UMC.

Mr Willimon's sanctimonious religious problems:

Lamenting the results, he says:

The Lord, as far as I could tell, had business elsewhere. So, G-d didn't care and was not concerned, ONLY because things did not go Mr Willimon's way? That presupposes that G-d could not possibly have been in favor the the Traditional Plan, and those in favor of the Traditional Plan were not listening to G-d at all. Says who?? And Liberals wonder why their sanctimonious arrogance stinks so much.

55 posted on 02/28/2019 11:01:01 AM PST by Wuli
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To: Gamecock

And there you have the left’s point of view. As a life long Methodist, I say good riddance, now let’s see them off and recreate our church in the fashion it should be: bible reading, bible believing, bible following Methodists. No modern smoke and mirrors that we suddenly found out God would love and support, no snake oil pronouncements, no trendy direction directly opposite from what we know is spiritual. Base the new Methodist Church on God’s teaching and let others do whatever they please.


58 posted on 02/28/2019 12:15:19 PM PST by Midwesterner53
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