Posted on 01/21/2019 3:32:46 PM PST by grumpa
There are, of course, many different views among Christians about eschatology. Jesus Parousia (Second Coming) of Matthew 24:29-34 is a primary text, but highly controversial. The futurist view places this event at the end of history. On the other hand, the preterist view is that Jesus Parousia described in Matthew 24 is about Christs coming in judgment against Old Covenant Israel in AD 70. The context is the prophecy of the destruction of the temple (verse 2) which was fulfilled in AD 70. The parallel passage of Luke 21 confirms that this is about the fall of Jerusalem at that time.
Jesus restricted the time of, at least, this coming to his own generation (verse 34). This time-constraint is confirmed by other passages that teach that the Parousia would be before some of those living in the first century had died (Matthew 10:23; 16:27-28). The further context of Matthew 24 is the preceding chapter (Matthew 23) in which Jesus condemns the Jews of his day. This is affirmation that Matthew 24 is about judgment of apostate Old Covenant Israel.
In either view, it is critical to understand the NATURE of Jesus Parousia described in Matthew 24 and similar verses. We read that Jesus would come on clouds of heaven, with angels and trumpets, accompanied by disruptions of the created order. Is this to be understood literally or figuratively?
In John 5:19-22 Jesus was given authority to judge in the SAME WAY as the Father. So, if Jesus was to judge in the same way, how does the Bible describe the Fathers judgments? In the passages below, note the similarity of how Gods various comings-in-judgment against people and nations in the Old Testament compared to Jesus coming described in Matthew 24:29-34:
Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven quaked and were shaken, because He was angry. Smoke went up from his nostrils, and devouring fire from his mouth, coals were kindled by it. He bowed the heavens also and came down with darkness under his feet. He rode upon a cherub, and flew; and He was seen upon the wings of the wind. He made darkness canopies around Him, dark waters and thick clouds of the skies. From the brightness before Him coals of fire were kindled. The LORD thundered from heaven, and the Most High uttered his voice. He sent out arrows and scattered them; lightning bolts, and He vanquished them. (2 Samuel 22:8-15, judgment against Davids enemies)
For behold, the LORD is coming out of His place; He will come down and tread on the high places of the earth. The mountains will melt under Him, and the valleys will split like wax before the fire, like waters poured down a steep place. All this is for the transgression of Jacob and for the sins of the house of Israel. . . . Therefore, I will make Samaria a heap of ruins in the field, places for planting a vineyard; I will pour down her stones into the valley, and I will uncover her foundations. All her carved images shall be beaten to pieces, and all her pay as a harlot shall be burned with the fire; all her idols I will lay desolate. . . . (Micah 1:3-13, judgment against Israel and Judah)
Behold, the DAY of the LORD comes, cruel, with both wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate; and He will destroy its sinners from it. For the stars of heaven and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be darkened in its going forth, and the moon will not cause its light to shine. I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; I will halt the arrogance of the proud, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. . . Therefore, I will shake the heavens, and the earth will move out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts and in the day of his fierce anger. (Isaiah 13:9-13, judgment against Babylon)
Behold, the LORD is riding on a swift cloud and comes to Egypt, and the idols of Egypt will tremble at his presence, and the heart of the Egyptians will melt within them. . . . And the waters of the sea will be dried up. . . . This who are the pillars of the land will be crushed. . . . And the LORD will make himself known to the Egyptians in that day. . . . And the LORD will strike Egypt. (Isaiah 19:1-22, judgment against Egypt)
Heres a list of other Old Testament references that speak of Gods coming, coming down to earth, returning, appearing, or that speak of his presence on earth effecting changeespecially JUDGMENT. Look these up for a fuller understanding of how God comes. Genesis 11:5; 18:21; Exodus 3:8; 13:21; 16:10; 19:9-20; 24:15-18; Leviticus 16:2; Numbers 9:15-22; 11:17; Deuteronomy 4:11-24; 5:22; 31:15; 33:2; 1 Kings 8:10-11; 2 Chronicles 5:13-14; Psalm 18:4-15; 46:6; 50:3; 96:13; 97:1-5; 98:9; 104:3; 144:5-7; Isaiah 26:21; 29:3-6; 31:4; 34:2-10; 40:3-10; 60:19-20; 64:1-3; 66:15; Jeremiah 4:12-28; 51:24-25; Ezekiel 1:27-28; 10:3-19; 30:2-12; 32:7-8; Daniel 7:13; 8:10; Hosea 8:1; Joel 2:10-11, 31; 3:15-16; Amos 5:16-24; 8:8-9; Micah 1:2-16; Nahum 1:2-6; Zephaniah 1:2-18; Zechariah 1:15-16; 9:14; 14:2-6; Malachi 3:5.
While the RESULTS of Gods effectual presence were seen in these passages, was God HIMSELF ever literally visible in these comings? Wasnt this poetic, non-literal use of language to describe Gods intervention from heaven? If Jesus was to judge like the Father, have many Christians misunderstood how Jesus would come at his Matthew 24 coming?
These many passages reveal the possibility that Jesus indeed came in judgment in AD 70 in a non-bodily sense to judge Old Covenant Israel, just as He promised in Matthew 21:33-43; 22:1-14; 23:29-39; etc. and just like God came in judgment in the Old Testament.
Do these passages shed a different light for you about the Matthew 24 Second Coming? Be a Berean and study the Scriptures further to see what is true (Acts 17:11)!? Start with my Introduction to Biblical Prophecy here:
www.prophecyquestions.com
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor. 2:14
The main thing is the main thing. . .everyone be ready. . everyone has a last breath on earth and only God knows when that will be, too. http://www.patburt.com/
Preterist alert.
grumpa the preterist is at it again.
In keeping with the charismatics and their N.A.R. (New Apostolic Reformation), makes me to wonder if you’ve joined with them.
The eschatology of the NAR heretics is a combo of preterist and post-millennial (i.e., Dominionist, “Kingdom Now”). I can’t think of a worse combo. Since grumpa is a preterist, he would fit right in.
Yeah, it all happened by 70 a.d., nothing more here, yada yada. B.S.
I dont know grumpa...
Your posts are typically more critical of other believers.
Are you well?
Also, this post promotes your blog.
Got to take points off for that.
And of course, none of your posts have been biblically accurate yet.
Im giving it a 2, out of a possible 10 points.
(1 of those points is for correctly posting it in the Religion Forum.)
bookmark
Yet Jesus said when he returned there would be no mistake, everyone would see and recognize it. Like a comet flaming in the sky. I don’t recall that happening in 70 AD.
Why This Is Important
Eschatology, the study of the last things or end times is not a salvation issue. So, it is a secondary issue. However, its importance rests on defending Scripture against skeptics. The issue is that skeptics of all stripes challenge Christians about Jesus being a false prophet about the timing of his Parousia (second coming or presence in judgment). These challenges come from atheists, Muslims, Jews, and even some confused Christians. For example, here is a statement by C. S. Lewis, considered to be the most important Christian apologist of the 20th century, concerning Matthew 24 and the Parousia:
Say what you like, we shall be told, the apocalyptic beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be false. It is clear from the New Testament that they all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime. And, worse still, they had a reason, and one which you will find very embarrassing. Their Master had told them so. He shared, and indeed created, their delusion. He said in so many words, this generation shall not pass till all these things are done. And He was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else. It is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible.
Skeptic Bertrand Russell made a similar accusation. Russell was one of the most influential philosophers of the twentieth century and the Nobel Prize winner for literature in 1950. He published a pamphlet entitled Why I Am Not a Christian. In the pamphlet he explained that one of the reasons he rejected Christianity was that Jesus failed to return as He promised. Russell wrote:
Jesus certainly thought that His second coming would occur in clouds of glory before the death of all the people who were living at that time. There are a great many texts that prove that. . . and there are a lot of places where it is quite clear that He believed that His second coming would happen during the lifetime of many then living.
Consider this attack by the group Jews for Judaism:
No amount of Christian theological acrobatics will ever solve the problems engendered by the historical reality that a promised imminent fulfillment made two thousand years ago did not occur as expected by the New Testament. Simply stated, Jesus is never coming back, not then, not now, not ever.
Was Jesus a false prophet? If so, Jesus was not divine and Christianity collapses. Christians have been weak to answer these charges. The preterist view is the only interpretation that honors Jesus as a true prophet, is in harmony with the rest of Scripture, and satisfies the demands of the texts.
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