Posted on 12/13/2018 9:06:35 AM PST by SeekAndFind
Moves to change the wording of the Lord's Prayer used by Catholics around the world appear to be gathering pace as the Italian Bishops' Conference has submitted a new version to the Vatican for approval.
At issue is the wording of the line usually rendered in English as 'and lead us not into temptation'.
Pope Francis last year took issue with that, saying it was wrong to imagine God could tempt people to do wrong and that it was 'not a good translation'. 'A father does not lead into temptation, a father helps you to get up immediately,' he said
He suggested the French version, 'do not let us enter into temptation'; Spanish-speakers have also changed their version, from 'lead us not into temptation' to 'forgive us our mistakes', though German bishops have declined to change the prayer.
The version suggested by Italian Catholics is, 'abandon us not when in temptation'.
At issue is not so much the literal translation of the Bible in Matthew 6:13, which does clearly imply that God is being asked not to do something. The Greek eisenenkēs, means to 'lead into' or 'bring in'; it is a second-person singular verb, in the active voice and the subjunctive ('expressing wish or desire') mood. If anything it is even more emphatic in the Latin favoured by the Church: 'Et ne nos inducas in tentationem.'
But questions of translation always involve some consideration of what words mean in context; some interpretation is not only permissible but is required. In this context, the verse concludes with 'but deliver us from evil', seeming to make God both responsible for evil and responsible for deliverance from it, with very little room in the middle for human choice. And this, of course, reflects a certain understanding of the mysterious sovereignty of God. But it's also true to say that while in the providence of God we may go through tempting and testing times, these are not to be sought after or welcomed (after all, we might fail the test!) – so this is a prayer of humility, showing a proper trust in God.
If a translation can make that clear, without doing violence to the text, it should be welcomed; as things stand, the version commonly used in English raises many questions which it isn't always easy to answer.
One short and snappy alternative is Eugene Peterson's in The Message: 'Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil.'
YES!! God does NOT LEAD US INTO TEMPTATION!!! This has always bothered me....also “World without End” has always bothered me also.
“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” —Isaiah 45:7
Frankie can think of nothing better to do with his time?
What was the original temptation?
Who was doing the tempting?
Who created the creature doing the tempting?
If you question “lead us not into temptation,” then must you not also question “deliver us from evil?”
Sure, why not. But first, let’s call for a general synod of Christendom to come together and determine it.
How’s does next week sound?
James - 1:13-15
Let no man, when he is tempted, say that he is tempted by God. For God is not a tempter of evils, and he tempteth no man.
14 But every man is tempted by his own concupiscence, being drawn away and allured.
15 Then when concupiscence hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin. But sin, when it is completed, begetteth death.
How can you say that?
God places temptation in our paths every day.
Booze, beautiful sexual creatures, desirable objects that are not ours, money, power and so on.
A good father teaches his children the correct path and then puts desirable things out where the child can see them and watches to see if the child will obey.
Testing and correction are the way of good parenting.
Why would God not do this?
The good and obedient child obeys but would rather not be tested.
“Evil” in that instance is probably more like calamity, or evil times (times of strife and conflict).
Now, if you want a less ambiguous instance there is Romans 1:18-32 ... which we seem to be seeing in many people in our own culture. Or when the Lord hardened Pharoah’s heart (that is actually similar, for if Pharaoh had not first seen the Lord’s wonders and chosen to harden his own heart then the Lord wouldn’t have hardened his heart for him). Likewise there were times that Israel’s unbelief or apostasy put them in the crosshairs of such extraordinary judgment. Those clearly shows that there are instances when the Lord turns unbelievers or sorta believers (but not really, or else they wouldn’t have departed from the faith, as Paul might say) over to sin.
To His Holiness Pope Francis, We should get the correct translation and meaning correct but there are much larger problems in the Church right now. There isn’t an issue with the laity arguing about the wording of prayer or its meaning but the larger issue is they aren’t praying or going to Mass to begin with.
It is an attempt to deflect attention from all his rump rangers.
It is our concupiscence or fallen nature that leads us into temptation. Following The Lord faithfully would not lead us to do wrong with any of those beautiful things He has created for their correct purpose.
“Greek”
Could’ve been a typo.
Not buying it. Yes, there are temptations, but GOD DOES NOT LEAD US THERE to TEST us!!
The verse is not saying that God is tempting the person, rather, it’s saying, ‘lead us not’ into temptation, in otherwords, ‘we are trusting you God to direct our paths so that we may avoid temptation, because we are weak and don’t wish to fall’
The verse is fine for any rational thinking person
The Lord God created the Angels with free will out of love. They either decided to worship God or not - their choice.
"God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one"
James 1:13
Jesus knows what he’s talking about.
Doesn’t “not into” mean the same as “out of”?
I never once thought God was leading into temptation, in the Lords prayer.
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