A rendering of the Diocese of Orange's Our Lady of La Vang Shrine. Image courtesy of Torrence Architects
Posted on 11/25/2018 7:06:58 AM PST by marshmallow
A rendering of the Diocese of Orange's Our Lady of La Vang Shrine. Image courtesy of Torrence Architects
GARDEN GROVE, Calif. (RNS) — Like most Vietnamese-American Catholics, Elysabeth Nguyen grew up hearing stories of Our Lady of La Vang, who is said to have saved her people from persecution.
The Marian apparition is said to have appeared in the late 1700s to a group of Catholics fleeing persecution in Vietnam. She then became a centerpiece of Catholic faith in the country, and after the fall of Saigon in 1975 — when more than a million Vietnamese became refugees — her intercession was credited with sparing the lives of her devotees. Churches named for the La Vang virgin are now thought to be as numerous in the United States as those dedicated to the apparitions at Fatima or Lourdes.
Now Nguyen and a group of Vietnamese-American Catholics in Orange County, Calif., home to the largest Vietnamese Catholic community outside Vietnam, are leading the development of the United States’ first major stand-alone shrine to Our Lady of La Vang.
The multi-million-dollar shrine, located at the Catholic Diocese of Orange’s Christ Cathedral in Garden Grove, will offer the 100,000 Vietnamese-American Catholics in the diocese a gathering place and, its builders expect, an international pilgrimage site. The diocese broke ground on the project in October.
“To have a shrine here reminds them of the homeland, of how grateful they are to be here, and the fruits and blessings they’ve had since coming to this country,” said Nguyen, project manager for the La Vang Shrine Committee with the Diocese of Orange.
(Excerpt) Read more at religionnews.com ...
It is a positive commandment to destroy all such images whenever one comes upon them. In 'Eretz Yisra'el the commandment is to actively seek them out and destroy them. The only reason this isn't done today is because of what the consequences would be.
You seem to be a typical liberal "all religions are equally valid" type, except your "all equally valid religions" are versions of chrstianity.
Why don't you read the Hebrew Bible and read about life in the only True Theocracy that has ever existed on this earth?
Something tells me you wouldn't enjoy the Messianic era. Not that you'll ever see it.
It's good to know that when traditional American Fundamentalist Protestants are under constant and continual attack from the Left they can always come to Free Republic . . . and read the exact same slurs the liberals make against them.
All this comes from the flawed ideas introduced by chrstianity two thousand years ago. First: there is a little tiny box labeled "religion" in which G-d is supposed to be safely stored where He will have no interaction with the "real world." This is why islam isn't a real religion; it's mean! G-d would never do anything mean. That's how we "know" that He never actually ordered the extermination of all those people.
Secondly: there's this magnificent thing called "western civilization," and "religion" is only good for upholding this concept. It was founded by people who venerated statues and prayed to deal people, so this must be perfectly all right. After all, "dese are the ways of our pipples" and "how can mad die better than in facing dreadful odds for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his gods???" Even without images of any kind this autolatrous civilization worship is idolatry.
But isn't that what everyone believes? You obviously belief that you are right and that ealgeone is wrong. Aren't you being a bit . . . hypocritical (you know, like a "tolerant" liberal???).
Actually, all chrstianity is idolatrous.
Radical Protestants have this thing about Saints and the Virgin Mary. I get it.
Apparently your "tolerance" doesn't extend to "radical Protestants."
But that doesn’t make Christians who disagree with you idolators.
That is insulting and untrue.
By radical Protestant standards it does. By Catholic/Orthodox standards it does not. Apparently you expect all "valid" religions to have the same standards. Let me guess . . . so long as they uphold "western civilization?"
You hyphenate the Name of the Lord, a common practice among observant Jews. But the object of your defense is “American Fundamentalist Protestants” so I don’t know if you are Jewish or not.
And if you’re a Zionist, then I’m a Zionist, too. As in, the Jews are God’s chosen people and the state of Israel is under His protection; I point to the last seventy years, and rest my case.
I will have to say there is far more Catholic-bashing on FR than any other Christian denomination; that’s a plain fact. So when I read posts saying that Catholics are “Maryolators who pray to the dead”, I will reply in kind.
FWIW my college roommate called himself a fundamentalist Protestant. He actually told me his goal was to convert me from Catholicism to Christianity; I just laughed because we were the best of friends.
So when I read stuff on FR that is straight out of Jack Chick who was a nutbar about the Beast of Rome, I just kinda laugh.
Disclaimer: you wanna bash the current Pope, I’ll join in. Francis is certifiable & so were the cardinals who elected him. My parish priest has some choice words for this Pontiff.
So when I hear the RC Church called “the great and abominable whore of Babylon”, I recall that a lot of that cr@p comes from the `sacred’ books of the Mormons. It is to laugh.
Dominus vobiscum, y’all.
“My position on the Roman Catholic worship of Mary, in all its forms, is not in error as it is in contradiction of the very book Roman Catholics claim to have given everyone.”
There is no worship of Mary by Catholics - as even other Protestants keep pointing out to you. The contradiction is you and your false claims.
I will note that many of the former Roman Catholics on these forums noted they were worshipping Mary....among other false doctrines.
Except in Roman Catholicism where Mary is now a mediatrix on par with Christ which is a contradiction of Scripture.
“Keep repeating that to yourself.”
I’m repeating it to you since you’re the only one between us making false accusations.
“I will note that many of the former Roman Catholics on these forums noted they were worshipping Mary....among other false doctrines.”
I will note that many of the former Catholics here often have little or no idea of what they’re talking about - as has been demonstrated on numerous occasions. I also will note that I have yet to encounter a “former Roman Catholic” who ever said, “Yeah, I mistook Mary for God and worshipped her” or “Yeah, I really believed Mary and God were one in the same and worshipped her.” Instead, what “former Roman Catholics” have said - often now showing their ignorance now as anti-Catholics - is that they came to believe that praying to Mary was worship (even though it is asking for intercession and not actually worshipping Mary).
That’s the truth. And that’s why you didn’t post it apparently.
I can see why you have issues with even your fellow Roman Catholics.
One of us is right and one of us is wrong....though I know you're gonna say you're right because you can't help yourself.
But, if I'm right....you're guilty of on-going idolatry.
If you're right, I'm guilty of nothing.
Have a good one, Vlad.
Again, you display your ignorance of me.
If I belief (sp - yours) that you, and only you, happen to be wrong, it’s just a debate, quite a bit different than believing that I, among the whole world, am the only right one, narcissistic zealot that I must be. So, no hypocrisy, notwithstanding your puerile hyperbole.
I don’t plan to waste my time further with this pointless back and forth, so grab the last word, on me.
I hate to point it out, but whether I am a good Catholic, Christian or other believer, is purely between my Creator and me. You don’t get a vote.
If I belief (sp - yours) that you, and only you, happen to be wrong, it’s just a debate, quite a bit different than believing that I, among the whole world, am the only right one, narcissistic zealot that I must be. So, no hypocrisy, notwithstanding your puerile hyperbole.
I don’t plan to waste my time further with this pointless back and forth, so grab the last word, on me.
Since you don't quote me, and since I don't recall replying to a "DPMD" (I'm not saying I didn't; just that if I did so I didn't notice the screen name) then I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
It's a good thing Paul didn't listen to this line of thinking.
“One of us is right and one of us is wrong....though I know you’re gonna say you’re right because you can’t help yourself.”
Even your fellow non-Catholics in this thread are saying you’re wrong. What gets me, and perhaps “you can’t help yourself”, but you keep posting as if no one here disagrees with you except for me. The reality is that even other Protestants, other non-Catholics, are saying you’re wrong.
“If you’re right, I’m guilty of nothing.”
Except gross dishonesty, bearing false witness, violating a commandment, and insulting and attacking God’s Church. I guess that’s all “nothing” to you. The very fact that you can’t see that you would most definitely be guilty of something if I’m right and you’re wrong shows you literally can’t see the argument. You can only see your own bias as if that were the only reality. I can see exactly what either you or I would be guilty of if you were right and I wrong or vice-versa. You apparently have such myopic vision that you can’t see the reality of things as they actually exist.
None of that will give you pause. You will blithely keep posting as if no else here disagrees with you. You have to. Because “you can’t help yourself.”
These are not "my" fellow non-Roman Catholics.
You continue to post here as if everyone agrees with you.
But I'll always remember this.....you placed your faith in a false piece of cloth to protect you over the promises of the Lord Jesus Christ.
That is idolatry and is not supported by Scripture. Argue it all you want to but you and your fellow Roman Catholics are at odds with Scripture.
“These are not “my” fellow non-Roman Catholics.”
If they’re not Catholic, they’re your fellows more than mine.
“But I’ll always remember this.....you placed your faith in a false piece of cloth to protect you over the promises of the Lord Jesus Christ.”
No, I never actually did. You’re literally making things up. Now, I knew all along why you brought up the scapular - because your attacks, like those of all anti-Catholics, are incredibly predictable. I never put faith in the scapular. I put faith in Christ and wore the scapular to remind me of Him, what He did for me, and what I needed to do for my relationship with Him. And He used it exactly as I hoped He would.
“That is idolatry and is not supported by Scripture.”
If God can heal men through a cloth which touched Peter, I don’t see why He couldn’t use a scapular to help remind men of what is right.
“Argue it all you want to but you and your fellow Roman Catholics are at odds with Scripture.”
Catholics are not at odds with scripture. And you’ll keep posting false claims like that no matter what. You apparently have no regard for the truth.
You're still engaged in idolatry no matter how you slice it.
These scapulars (a word meaning “shoulders” in Latin) are a sign of devotion to Mary and faithfulness to Christ. The original scapular was large piece of brown cloth worn over the shoulders of monks.
According to Catholic tradition, Our Lady gave the scapular to St. Simon Stock, the Father General of the Carmelite order, in the thirteenth century. Mary appeared to St. Simon in a vision, held out a scapular and said to him, ‘ . . . he who dies in this will not suffer eternal fire.’
https://lifeteen.com/blog/why-do-catholics-wear-scapulars/
Roman Catholicism puts a lot of spin on this to say it's not saying what it is saying.
Anyone who wears this is not following Christ....they have departed from the Gospel for a false gospel.
My post was directed to a virus ID’d as “eagleone.” Sorry you got it, too.
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