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Why Every Christian, Not Just Catholics, Should Be Very Worried About The Catholic Sex Scandal
The Federalist ^ | 09/17/2018 | By Willis L. Krumholz and Robert Delahunty

Posted on 09/17/2018 11:01:08 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

The rapidly unfolding crisis in the Roman Catholic Church is not a matter of concern to Catholics alone. Its true dimensions have yet to be measured, but we think it will prove to be a crisis on the scale of the Protestant Reformation, which began just over 500 years ago — an earthquake of 9.5 on the Richter scale. If so, resolution of the crisis will take decades to work through.

Resolution and absolution will require serious effort, and most likely require deep, structural reforms. Even if we are mistaken, the Catholic crisis is of such a magnitude that Christians of all denominations must take a serious interest in it.

We are both evangelical Christians with strong ties to the Catholic Church and deep respect for it. One of us was raised as a Catholic, was educated at Catholic primary and secondary schools, and has taught for the past 14 years at a Catholic law school; the other is a graduate of the law school and the business school of that Catholic university, and has many Catholic family members.

We also care deeply about our many Catholic friends, and the health of the Roman Catholic Church, which is an enormous force for good in this world. We also believe that what happens with the Catholic Church will affect Christianity worldwide. In other words, we have a stake in the matter.

Non-Catholics Should Pay Attention

Some Catholics may regard the crisis in their church as a purely internal matter, and consider outside commentary unwelcome and intrusive, even if it is well-meant. Likewise, many non-Catholic Christians may assume the Catholic crisis does not affect them at all, and perhaps even find in that crisis confirmation for their darkest views of Catholicism.

We do not accept that position. Non-Catholic Christians should take an active part in the conversation about the Catholic crisis. While they must be unfailingly tactful and sympathetic, they should also be as critical as is necessary given what is at stake. The well-known writer Rod Dreher, formerly a Catholic and now Eastern Orthodox, has posted frequently on the Catholic crisis, and is a magnificent model for other non-Catholic Christians to follow.

Among many reasons for non-Catholic interventions, three stand out in our minds.

1. The Victims

First, every Christian has a compelling obligation to protect the weak and vulnerable to the greatest extent possible. The victims of clerical sex abuse in the Catholic Church (as elsewhere) have often been children. While many victims have been compensated — if “compensation” for such injuries is really possible — and the Catholic Church in many places has instituted practices to guard against future abuse, it remains necessary to speak on behalf of those who have been victimized and those who may still be at risk.

All Christians, especially Catholics, should be angry. It is unbearable to think of what has been done “to the least of these” by those claiming to speak in the name of Christ. Many of the children targeted and abused came from broken and dysfunctional homes. Many are fatherless.

The church is charged with mending the emptiness that a broken family brings, not violently shattering a child’s world. God is the father to the fatherless. What would Christ, who overturned tables at the temple and chased out the moneychangers with a whip, do to those who sexually molest his children?

Far too many in the church hierarchy, including the pope, are not sufficiently angry. For example, this coming January, Cardinal Barbarin, the archbishop of Lyons in France, will be standing trial for allegedly covering up the crimes of a local priest who, in the 1980s, sexually abused Boy Scouts. A local priest has gathered more than 100,000 signatures to petition the pope to remove this cardinal.

Thus far, however, Pope Francis seems not to have responded to that petition. However, in 2016, despite knowing of the allegations against the cardinal, and apparently without meeting or hearing the victims of the priest’s abuse, Pope Francis praised Barbarin as “brave.” He also has not ordered a canonical proceeding against him.

We are not prejudging Barbarin’s guilt or innocence: that depends on the outcome of his case in January. But we think it is fair to say that Pope Francis’ handling of the affair indicates that he is — at best — over-eager to defend his hierarchy and insufficiently attentive to those who have suffered at their hands.

The pope is not the only member of the Catholic hierarchy who seems simply unable to register the severity of the injuries they cause to their victims, and others at risk from them. Recently, on a visit to a seminary, Chicago Cardinal Blase Cupich, a Francis appointee, answered one anguished young candidate for the priesthood by saying, “While the church’s ‘agenda’ certainly involves protecting kids from harm, ‘we have a bigger agenda than to be distracted by all of this.’” His audience was reportedly dumbfounded: Surely the problem of sexual abuse of seminaries and children is more than a “distraction?”

In a similar vein, Cardinal Oscar Maradiaga of Honduras has excoriated a group of 50 Honduran seminarians for petitioning the Vatican to correct homosexual abuses going on in their seminary. We apparently are to believe that 50 seminaries are spreading malicious lies, while Madariaga, whose top aide resigned last July in the wake of charges of sexual and financial misconduct, is only speaking the truth.

Moreover, the victims of clerical abuse and the hierarchical concealment of them are not limited to those who have personally suffered sexual affronts. The financial costs to the Catholic Church of litigating and settling abuse cases have been staggering, and are now likely to escalate much higher. In 2015, the National Catholic Reporter found that the church had incurred $4 billion since 1950 in costs related to clerical sex abuse.

Research has also found that the church lost about $2.3 billion annually over the last 30 years due to scandal-related consequences, in the form of lost membership, and diverted giving. Specifically, there is a notable drop in giving in areas rocked by abuse. This makes sense. Why should good people give to pay for bad things?

Abuse litigation in the Los Angeles Archdiocese alone cost $740 million. Yet the former archbishop of Los Angeles, Cardinal Roger Mahony, under whose tenure (1985-2011) there were 500 alleged victims, is still considered a “priest in good standing” and has not been demoted by the pope.

These amounts will likely rise significantly in the wake of the recent report by a Pennsylvania grand jury detailing abuse in most (but not all) of that state’s Catholic dioceses, the overwhelming likelihood that similar investigations will occur in other states, and the risk that statutes of limitations will be amended to expose the Catholic Church to greater liability.

That means the American Catholic Church has had, and will have, far fewer resources to help the poor, to care for the sick, to shelter the homeless, and to educate children. These are victims too.

2. Concern for Fellow Christians

Second, even if you happen not to be a Catholic, surely you have Catholic family members, spouses, close friends, or colleagues who are Catholics. Almost half of the U.S. population has a “strong” connection to the Catholic Church. We have often found the Catholics closest to us to be dismayed by the situation in their church — angry, stunned, confused, or even in denial. Fellow Christians should share their agony.

The other Christian churches should want a healthy, robust Catholic Church, not the gravely weakened one of the present. American Catholicism was losing members alarmingly even before the current phase of the Catholic crisis. It is said that the second largest American denomination, after the Catholic Church, is ex-Catholics.

Not all of that decline is due to the clerical scandals; the general re-paganization of American society has surely played its part. But it seems likely that many former Catholics have abandoned their church (or at least are boycotting it) because of the scandals. The abuse scandals may also be playing a role in this re-paganization — after all, abuse of young boys was a pagan practice that early Christianity condemned and sought to stamp out.

In light of all this, non-Catholic Christians may be increasingly tempted to view Catholicism as a kind of pariah church within global Christianity. But that would not only be uncharitable; it would be unwise. To a great extent, the reputation of the Christian faith itself is besmirched when a large Christian denomination is engulfed in continuing scandals.

3. The Risk to Religious Liberty

When a large corporate body proves unable to govern itself, the chances are high that the government will step in. We saw this when financial institutions considered “too big to fail” were either shuttered by the government or subjected to deeply intrusive government regulation. The Catholic Church is heading towards the same predicament. Unless it can prove, very rapidly, that it is capable of managing its own affairs, it will come under increasing governmental scrutiny and control. Thereby it will pose a danger to the religious liberties of us all.

Already, the American Catholic Church is under the regulatory microscope. We’ve mentioned the stunning grand jury report from Pennsylvania. Attorneys general in five other states — Illinois, New York, Nebraska, New Mexico, Missouri, and now Kentucky — have been quick to take the cue.

These investigations may well reveal problems as deep, intractable, and serious as those discovered in Pennsylvania. That is, the systematic abuse of children was known to be occurring, and no one did anything about it.

Federal and state courts have already been involved, e.g., in diocesan bankruptcy cases. They are now likely to be trying larger numbers of criminal cases related to the abuse scandals, including some against ranking Catholic prelates. There is even a possibility that the Department of Justice may launch an anti-racketeering suit against the American Catholic Church.

Yes, there is a sturdy tradition of religious liberty in this country, and it enjoys constitutional protection in the First Amendment. But in the past several years, that tradition has been weakening, and government has asserted broader power to control decisions that churches once considered their own.

The Obama administration’s “contraception mandate” is a case in point. Given that growing numbers of Americans have severed their affiliations to any religion or church, the public (and the courts) may grow increasingly indifferent to arguments of behalf of religious liberty, and come to regard governmental regulation of all churches with greater acceptance. These trends will be aggravated if the largest American denomination seems scandal-ridden and unable to right itself. That makes the problems of the Catholic Church a matter of the highest concern for us all.

Gazing Into the Abyss

It is absolutely essential that Catholics grasp the depth of this crisis. As we have said, we think it will become as severe and as comprehensive as the crisis of the Protestant Reformation 500 years ago. With remarkable swiftness, Catholicism simply collapsed in what had been Catholic strongholds — most of Germany, Scandinavia, the Netherlands, Switzerland, England, Scotland, and very nearly France. In recent decades, Catholicism has likewise lost its grip in what had been bastions — like French Canada, Spain, Ireland, and Brazil.

Forty years ago, virtually the entire population of southern Ireland turned out to welcome Pope John Paul II. A few weeks ago, the Irish population essentially shunned the visiting Pope Francis, and the Irish prime minister gave him a stern lecture on his church’s reduced place in that country. What would St. Patrick, who, despite just escaping from slavery in pagan Ireland, returned to the island after hearing the screams of the damned in his dreams, think of the church today?

As goes Ireland, so will go the rest of Roman Catholic Christendom. The church in Germany has been rocked by scandal and there are thousands of known-victims. Already, the hierarchy of the Catholic Church is under judgment in Chile, the United States, Australia, France, and Honduras. The crisis has long since gone global.

In fact, as the Catholic scholar Benjamin Wiker has argued, the current crisis is more threatening for the Catholic Church than the Protestant Reformation 500 years ago. For one thing, the Reformation began in a society that was still overwhelmingly Christian. Some historians of the pre-Reformation period even argue that Christian piety was deepening and broadening in the run-up to the Reformation, and that the Christian laity was already assuming a more prominent role in managing church affairs (a development greatly accelerated by Lutherans and Calvinists). But the contemporary Western world seems rapidly to be losing whatever residual Christianity was left in it. That makes a Catholic recovery more problematic.

Second, the internet spreads news of the Catholic crisis within seconds into every house. Everyone knows everything. Pope Francis, who seems to prefer talking about plastics in our oceans over the systemic problem of child abuse, may count on a friendly and collaborative media to ignore or downplay the charges Archbishop Vigano recently brought personally against him. But even if information leaks out drip by drip, the Catholic hierarchy and the Vatican can no longer safely rely on secrecy and on silence to cover their misdeeds.

Just as the printing press was a major force in the spread of the Reformation in Martin Luther’s Germany, so internet journalism (and, who knows, even the mainstream media when the pope is no longer useful to their agenda) will sooner or later force the disclosure of the facts. So it will not do for Catholics simply to say, “We have been through this before. We will make it through again.” In the end, that belief may be vindicated. We sincerely hope it is. But in the meanwhile, they must be energetically fashioning responses that are truly commensurate to this crisis.

Willis L. Krumholz lives in Minneapolis, Minnesota. He is a JD/MBA graduate from the University of St. Thomas, and works in the financial services industry. Robert J. Delahunty is a professor of law at the University of St Thomas and has taught Constitutional Law there for a decade.


TOPICS: Catholic; Evangelical Christian; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: catholics; catholicsexscandal; popesexscandal; sexscandal; sexualabuse
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To: BillyBoy; Claude
I don't mind being evangelized. I have had plenty of people give me come-to-Jesus literature and I see the good intent behind it. It's kind of touching and can lead to shared prayer, which is always a plus.

What I do mind is --- well, I can't summarize it better than Claude did (pinging you, buddy):

The Claude Paradigm

“You Catholics are wrong because you believe X.”
“We don’t believe X.”
“Wrong again. Yes you do.”

Trait Analysis

* Aggressiveness: 100%
* Rigidity: 100%
* Openness: 0%
* Empathy: 0%

Nuff said!

61 posted on 09/17/2018 3:47:17 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.)
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To: metmom
"Catholics regularly tell non-Catholics they are going to hell since they are heretics and have ex-=communicated themselves, which effectively damns them according to Catholic teaching."

I've never seen this, really I haven't -- but I'm betting you have.

If it's a FReeper Catholic, give me his/her FReepername and I will sally forth and whomp them with my Catechism.

62 posted on 09/17/2018 3:49:41 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (I'm making a list... Checking it twice... Gonna find out who's naughty or nice....)
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To: BillyBoy

“95% of the Catholics I’ve met have no problem accepting all mainstream Orthodox and Protestant denominations are Christian.”

Well, those 95% of Catholics you have met are much more charitable than I am. There are a number of “mainstream Protestant” denominations that I think are open to question. I have sat in some of them. I’d go back if they would show me an annotated Bible, with all the parts they no longer believe lined out and the new things they now believe added in with underlining. I know you will find a vast number of writings of Paul they reject and I fear that there are a number of words of Christ, Himself, that they are ashamed of.

Their ears seem to itch for preachers to tell them comfortable things. I think I read something like that somewhere.


63 posted on 09/17/2018 3:56:48 PM PDT by Cincinnatus.45-70 (What do DemocRats enjoy more than a truckload of dead babies? Unloading them with a pitchfork!)
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To: BillyBoy

And Catholicism didn’t start at Cesarea Phillipi with Pope Peter.


64 posted on 09/17/2018 4:07:15 PM PDT by Old Yeller (Auto-correct has become my worst enema.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

““You Catholics are wrong because you believe X.”
“We don’t believe X.”
“Wrong again. Yes you do.”

..........

Rather, it goes like this:

“Roman Catholicism teaches a heresy - including a false Gospel.”
“We Are the One True Church!!!!! ”
“But God says in Scripture...”
“We are not limited by the Scriptures - we wrote it and can add to it!”


65 posted on 09/17/2018 4:15:20 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: BillyBoy; Mrs. Don-o

I’ve been guilty myself of not treating Catholics fairly due to disagreements over doctrine and practices. However, I am working on being able to disagree without being disagreeable to the extent that is possible. I find that often I can learn things even from people with whom I fundamentally disagree about some issue.

Part of the learning process is to realize that people cannot (and should not) be coerced into their beliefs. Persuasion is good. Even fear can be a reasonable motivator to seek God and be sure about what you believe and why. But ultimately salvation is the work of God. We should seek to be obedient to Him and listen to His voice, but only He can change anyone’s heart whether they are Protestant, Catholic, Muslim, atheist, or something else.

I’m thankful we do not live in a day when various groups within Christianity are ready to burn each other at the stake over disagreements.


66 posted on 09/17/2018 4:19:53 PM PDT by unlearner (A war is coming.)
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To: unlearner

Amen to that.


67 posted on 09/17/2018 4:21:24 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (It ain't what they don't know that's a problem, it's what they do know that ain't so." - Will Rogers)
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To: SeekAndFind
Some Catholics may regard the crisis in their church as a purely internal matter, and consider outside commentary unwelcome and intrusive, even if it is well-meant.

They must be reading the Free Republic Catholic Caucus threads! ;o)

68 posted on 09/17/2018 4:30:40 PM PDT by boatbums (Not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to His mercy he saved us.)
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To: Cincinnatus.45-70
Well, those 95% of Catholics you have met are much more charitable than I am. There are a number of “mainstream Protestant” denominations that I think are open to question. I have sat in some of them. I’d go back if they would show me an annotated Bible, with all the parts they no longer believe lined out and the new things they now believe added in with underlining. I know you will find a vast number of writings of Paul they reject and I fear that there are a number of words of Christ, Himself, that they are ashamed of.

Proof is required of your claim.

69 posted on 09/17/2018 4:32:46 PM PDT by ealgeone (SCRIPTURE DOES NOT CHANGE!)
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To: unlearner
I’m thankful we do not live in a day when various groups within Christianity are ready to burn each other at the stake over disagreements.

The office of the Inquisition is still open. It's just under a different name now.

On 21 July 1542, Pope Paul III proclaimed the Apostolic Constitution Licet ab initio, establishing the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Roman and Universal Inquisition, staffed by cardinals and other officials whose task it was "to maintain and defend the integrity of the faith and to examine and proscribe errors and false doctrines." It served as the final court of appeal in trials of heresy and served as an important part of the Counter-Reformation.

This body was renamed the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office in 1908 by Pope Pius X. In many Catholic countries, the body is often informally called the Holy Office (e.g., Italian: Sant'Uffizio and Spanish: Santo Oficio).

The congregation's name was changed to Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (SCDF) on 7 December 1965, at the end of the Second Vatican Council. Soon after the 1983 Code of Canon Law came into effect, the adjective "sacred" was dropped from the names of all Curial Congregations,[b] and so the dicastery adopted its current name, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congregation_for_the_Doctrine_of_the_Faith

70 posted on 09/17/2018 4:42:45 PM PDT by ealgeone (SCRIPTURE DOES NOT CHANGE!)
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To: ealgeone

As soon as I get that annotated Bible, I’ll post extracts from it. :-)

Or do you mean my claim that the 95% of Catholics he knows are more charitable than I am? How about a deposition from my wife? :-)


71 posted on 09/17/2018 4:45:52 PM PDT by Cincinnatus.45-70 (What do DemocRats enjoy more than a truckload of dead babies? Unloading them with a pitchfork!)
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To: SeekAndFind

Sadly I see the Evangelical churches the next ones to come under attack by the LBGT crowd


72 posted on 09/17/2018 4:49:39 PM PDT by Biggirl ("One Lord, one faith, one baptism" - Ephesians 4:5)
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To: Cincinnatus.45-70
As soon as I get that annotated Bible, I’ll post extracts from it. :-)

******************

That's all I'm interested in.

73 posted on 09/17/2018 4:50:21 PM PDT by ealgeone (SCRIPTURE DOES NOT CHANGE!)
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To: Biggirl
Sadly I see the Evangelical churches the next ones to come under attack by the LBGT crowd.

*****************

And if they do, depending on which one caves, I will be the first to condemn and then leave that church.

74 posted on 09/17/2018 4:52:24 PM PDT by ealgeone (SCRIPTURE DOES NOT CHANGE!)
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To: Biggirl

“I see the Evangelical churches the next ones to come under attack by the LBGT crowd.”

That started a long time ago. Back in ‘98 we had a group —5 or 6 — transvestites march into our SBC in California trying to disrupt the service. All of us in the choir saw the whole thing from the minute they walked through the doors. They were expecting to be harasses, kicked out, or similar I guess, but that didn’t happen. They were given bulletins, seated, and treated with respect. When they realized there’d be no scene or drama, they just left. Never came back. We heard later it was organized and that same day they “hit” about 10 churches in the area.


75 posted on 09/17/2018 4:54:11 PM PDT by MayflowerMadam (Have an A-1 day.)
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To: Lurkinanloomin
It all stems from the acceptance of homosexuality as normal.

HMMMmmm…

I've read; somewhere; that it's not...


 

A BIBLICAL Message to LGBT folks EVERYWHERE!



 
Genesis 13:13
Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and
their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men
from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them
."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.


Leviticus niv

18:22 Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

20:13 If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

 
 


Psalms 12:8 The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

Doonesbury Cartoon for Feb/08/2013

Isaiah 3:9 The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.


Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.


Romans 1     New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
 
 18 The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19 For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them. 20 Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse; 21 for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 While claiming to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes.
 

24 Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper. 29 They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. 


2 Peter 2

1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
5. if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
6. if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
7. and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
8. (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
9. if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
10. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
11. yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
12. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
13. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done.
Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.



But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...

 
 
 
 
 
 
 


The Health Risks of gay sex.

76 posted on 09/17/2018 5:36:42 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: BillyBoy
Well, the "evangelical leaders" could start there by simply acknowledging Catholics ARE Christians, instead of an "unbiblical cult".

Sounds like a plan...


"One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved, in which the priest himself is the sacrifice, Jesus Christ, whose body and blood are truly contained in the sacrament of the altar under the species of bread and wine; the bread (changed) into His body by the divine power of transubstantiation, and the wine into the blood, so that to accomplish the mystery of unity we ourselves receive from His (nature) what He Himself received from ours."

--Pope Innocent III and Lateran Council IV (A.D. 1215)

77 posted on 09/17/2018 5:37:59 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ealgeone

“The office of the Inquisition is still open.”

But, as far as I’m aware, no one is being tried for heresy with the result of being tortured to death by Rome or within other congregations. Any such activity going on within any Christian church today is not following the official doctrines of their church. And many Catholics around the world have endured similar persecution as Protestant Christians in recent years.

I’m not defending doctrinal error but pointing out there has been some “Reform” within all denominations. And, conversely, many once-great denominations have descended into depravity just like the select sex abusers that are being caught operating within the Catholic Church.

Perhaps this is where the true Church (the invisible, universal one rather than the outward religious forms) will be restored to unity in the last days due to persecution from the world system that promotes sexual perversion and murder and every sort of wickedness with hatred toward Christ and His followers.

John warned that antichrist was coming. He will have a bloodlust against Christians and Jews. He will try to force everyone to worship him and take his mark. Christians, Jews, and others who fear God and love freedom will refuse. And many will be killed for their refusal.

Keep in mind that antichrist may come in Christ’s name. He will identify as the fulfillment of Hebrew Messianic prophecy. He will claim to be working to save the world and bring world peace. He will be the head of a religion, and that religion will be considered by many to be a “Christian” religion. Many visible churches will probably become part of this new Christian religion, and the true Church will be forced underground.

It is possible he will use things like what you described to persecute the underground church. This does not mean the Catholic church itself (i.e. the Catholics who belong to this denomination) will all follow antichrist or that the true church (i.e. the corporate body of all believers) will ever be defeated in an ultimate sense. But it does mean that the external trappings of Christendom will most likely be repurposed for assisting antichrist with his efforts to destroy real followers of Christ and Jewish people.


78 posted on 09/17/2018 5:39:48 PM PDT by unlearner (A war is coming.)
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To: BillyBoy
...instead of an "unbiblical cult".

HMMMmmm…


Well; I; for one; sure don't want any of that UNBIBLICAL stuff around ME!!!



 

Ambrose: …constantly pray ‘Open to us, O Mary, the gates of paradise, since thou hast its KEYS.

Anselm: It suffices, O Lady, that thou willest it, and our SALVATION is certain.

Antoninus: …souls protected by Mary, and on which she casts her eyes, are NECESSARILY JUSTIFIED AND SAVED. 

Athanasius: …And, thou, O Lady, wast filled with grace, that thou mightiest be the way of our SALVATION and the means of ascent to the heavenly Kingdom.

Bernadine: …all gifts, all virtues, and all graces are dispensed by the hands of Mary to whomsoever, when, and as she pleases. O Lady, since thou art the dispenser of all graces, and since the grace of salvation can ONLY come through thy hands, OUR SALVATION DEPENDS ON THEE.
(Leo XIII: Adiutricem populi, September 5, 1895) — [p. 19, no. 44]

Blosius: To the, O Lady, are committed the KEYS and the treasures of the kingdom of Heaven.

Bonaventure: …the gates of heaven will open to all who confide in the protection of Mary. Blessed are they who know thee, O Mother of God, for the knowledge of THEE is the high road to everlasting life, and the publication of thy virtues is the way of ETERNAL SALVATION . Give ear, O ye nations; and all you who desire heaven , serve, honor Mary, and certainly you will find ETERNAL LIFE.

She says, "He that shall find Me shall find life, and shall have salvation from the Lord.   "Qui me invenerit, inveniet vitam, et hauriet salutem a Domino."

Listen," exclaims St. Bonaventure on these words, "listen, all you who desire the kingdom of God: honor the most Blessed Virgin Mary, and you will find life and eternal salvation."  "Audite qui ingredi cupitis regnum Dei: Virginem Mariam honorate, et invenietis vitam et salutem perpetuam."-psalt. B.V.ps.48.

 

Ephem: …devotion to the divine Mother…is the unlocking of the heavenly Jerusalem.

Fulgetius: …by Mary God descended from Heaven into the world, that by HER man might ascend from earth to Heaven.

Guerric: …he who serves Mary and for whom she intercedes, is as CERTAIN of heaven as if he were already there…and those who DO NOT serve Mary will NOT BE SAVED.

Richard of Laurence: Mary, in fine, is the mistress of heaven; for there she commands as she wills, and ADMITS whom she wills.

 

“The Catholic Church has always and with justice put all her hope and trust in the Mother of God.”

(Leo XIII: Encyclical, Supreme Apostolatus, September 1, 1883.) — [p. 32, no. 104]



“... Yet our manner of praying to the Blessed Virgin has something in common with our worship of God so that the Church even addressed to her the words with which we pray to God: ‘Have mercy on sinners.’”

(Leo XIII: Encyclical, Augustissimae, September 12, 1897.) [p. 68; no. 302]

"Only She Can Help You"
by Father Nicholas Gruner, S.T.L., S.T.D. (Cand.)
In this letter introducing The Fatima Crusader Issue 38, Father Gruner discusses the growing lies and deception about Russia's errors and the consecration of that nation. He also reminds us that, while it is urgent that we be informed about and fight for Our Lady's cause, we must ask for Her help and intercession.

 

Mary Leads Her Servants to Heaven
by St. Alphonsus de Liguori
In this article taken from The Glories of Mary, Saint Alphonsus explains that there are countless souls in Heaven who are there now only because Mary, by Her powerful intercession, led them there. If a soul persists in true devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary, She will certainly lead that soul to Heaven.

 



The Rosary
by Father Stefano Manelli, S.T.D.
It is greatly important that Our Lady insisted on the Rosary. When at Fatima She spoke of the salvation of sinners, of the ruin of souls in hell, of wars and peace, and of the future of our age. Our Lady indicated and recommended the Rosary as the prayer that saves, that brings peace, that preserves the faith.

Hail Mary, Full of Grace
by Father Stefano Manelli, S.T.D.
It is truly a treasure to have a strong devotion to Our Lady, for it is She who unites us to Jesus and brings us to Heaven, as this article explains.

Mary, Our Life, Our Sweetness, Our Hope
by St. Alphonsus de Liguori
St. Alphonsus de Liguori explains how Mary is our life, how She is our sweetness, and how She is our hope.

The historical record of the worship of Mary accumulated by St. Alphonsus de Liguori who wrote “The Glories of Mary” in the year 1745, which has been since translated into English and printed again and again and again with the full affirmation and imprimatur of the official Roman Catholic Church.  In this book there is the sum of all the glories of Mary which has been vouchsafe to the Roman Catholic Church and the Church itself calls upon all its constituents to give Mary that honor she is due.  She is identified as Mary, our Queen; Mary, our mother; Mary, our life; Mary, our sweetness; Mary, our hope; Mary, our help; Mary, our Mediatress; Mary, our advocate; Mary, our guardian; and Mary, our salvation.  It is said that Mary delivers us from hell, Mary delivers us from purgatory, and Mary leads us to heaven.  And it should be said that de Liguori, who collected all the Marion dogma and devotion, was himself one of the most celebrated and revered authorities in the Roman Catholic Church.  De Liguori was himself a cardinal in life, and a saint in death.

 

Jesus said "Without Me you can do nothing". In this crisis which looms ahead of us, Our Lady has told us that we need Her help, Her intercession. We must ask for Her help with the Rosary and the Scapular.

At Fatima, Our Lady told us very plainly that "Only I can help you". Today more than ever is this so true.

Pray the Rosary and sacrifice yourself for Our Lady.

I urge you to also make some sacrifices as Our Lady of Fatima asked us. For those who are able, do some fasting. If you can, abstain from meat by eating meat only during one meal a day. Try to do this for two days, even ten days or 30 days. Of course we should abstain totally from meat every Friday.

 

 Jesus and Mary — Our Hope

It is so urgent that we reach as many souls as possible before it is too late. Let us be of good cheer and remember the words of Jesus to each of us, "It's never too late to have recourse to Jesus and Mary." That is why it is so important to reach the many millions of souls who do not know this, and who do not know the grave dangers lying in wait for their souls.

No, we must never lose hope. Mary is our hope. She can obtain for us what we cannot by ourselves. Read what St. Alphonsus has to say regarding confidence in Our Lady's intercession in "Mary Leads Her Servants to Heaven". Father Manelli also reminds us of the importance of devotion to Our Lady. (See "Hail Mary, Full of Grace"). Our Blessed Mother tells us to turn to Her in confidence. She tells us repeatedly to ask Her intercession through the frequent fervent praying of the Rosary. (See "The Rosary"). She tells us we must pray the Rosary every day. She wants us to pray it many times a day.

 

http://fatima.org/crusader/cr38/cr38pg2.asp



"Blessed is he whose interior offers the Blessed Virgin Mary a place of repose." Devotion towards the Blessed Virgin remains in all who are the inheritance of Our Lord; that is to say, in all who will praise Him eternally in Heaven.

O, how many blessed souls are now in Heaven who would never have been there had not Mary, by Her powerful intercession, led them thither. I made that in the heavens there should rise light that never faileth. Cardinal Hugo, in his commentary on the above text of Ecclesiasticus, says in the name of Mary, "I have caused as many saints in Heaven through Her intercession, who would never have been there but through Her ."

...in the words of St. Ambrose, "Open to us, O Mary, the gates of paradise, since Thou hast its keys." "Aperi nobis, O Virgo coelum, cujus claves habes." Nay more, the Church says, that "Thou art its gate." 

 


 

St. Antoninus tells us "that this divine Mother has already, by Her assistance and prayers, obtained Heaven for us, provided we put no obstacle in the way."23

Hence, says Abbot Guerric, "he who serves Mary, and for whom She intercedes, is as certain of Heaven as if he was already there."24

St. John Damascene also says, "that to serve Mary and be Her courtier is the greatest honor we can possibly possess; for to serve the Queen of Heaven is already to reign there, and live under Her commands is more than to govern."25

On the other hand, he adds, "that those who do not serve Mary will not be saved; for those who are deprived of the help of this great Mother are also deprived of that of Her Son and of the whole court of heaven."26

 23.  "Coeleste nobis regnum, suo interventu auxiliis, et precibus, impetravit."—Paciucch. Sup. Salve Reg. exc. I.
 24. "Qui Virgini famulatur, ita securus est de paradiso, ac si esset in paradiso."
 25. "Summus honor, servire Mariæ, et de ejus esse familia; etenim ei servire, regnare est; et ejus agi frænis, summa libertas."
 26. "Gens quæ non servierit illi, peribit; gentes destitutæ tantæ Matris auxilio, destituuntur auxilio Filii et totius curi’‘ coelestis."— De Laud. B. M. I. 4.

Cardinal Hugo http://fatima.org/crusader/cr38/cr38pg3.asp 

 

 
 

79 posted on 09/17/2018 5:41:01 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Missouri gal
Vigano’s report was like removing the finger from the dyke.

I see what you did here...

80 posted on 09/17/2018 5:42:03 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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