Posted on 09/17/2018 11:01:08 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Judith Ann
On the basis of that, if a person's reading comprehension is within the "adequate" range, it's quickly plain what's Catholicism vs what's sump'n else.
I can even detect when the Pope is into "sump'n else." That's what's made it --- for the past 5 years at least --- so easy to refute heresies like, er... papolatry.
:o/
Lord have mercy 40x.
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Beg pardon. Judith Anne.
I would have loved to have heard Martin Luther or John Calvin's comments to such a statement.
“That’s a very naive statement, since the theologies of the evangelical and liturgical churches have absolutely nothing in common... Their doctrines are completely contradictory to each other. They can’t all be true. To pretend that Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Nestorians, high church Anglicans, and low church Fundamentalist Protestants all share the same religion is simply nonsense on the face of it.”
First, I believe it is important to be respectful to others as much as is possible. I have many times in the past by being too harsh with those who hold different views, and that is something I am trying to correct and find a balance on. I feel that to accept the profession of faith by others at face value is not an ecumenical compromise. The few cases where the term “Christian” is used in the Bible refer to a derisive term that unbelievers gave the early followers of Christ. If someone calls themselves “Christian,” I can generally accept that label without feeling the need to know with absolute certainty if they are born again. The degree of confidence we have in our own salvation and that of those we know will be a determining factor in the degree to which we are able to build a close bond of friendship.
So, for example, I certainly feel at ease cooperating with various “Christians” who want to work together to promote a conservative candidate or a cause like the pro-life movement. But I might want to know a little more about the doctrine and testimony of a person who would like to meet up for Bible study. And in the case of forming a business partnership or entering into marriage, the Bible clearly says not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers. This underscores the necessity to evaluate if someone else is a genuine believer. But first and foremost we need to examine ourselves in this regard. That’s also a Biblical command.
I have frequent discussions about the Bible and Christ with people from denominations that teach and practice error. It does grieve me when believers remain in churches where the truth is not being taught. But the criteria for salvation is not attending the right church. Certainly, when a professing Christian continues to participate in false religion, whether doctrinally or in practice, this is very troubling. And it even begs the question of the sincerity of the profession of faith. But I still hold to that salvation is NOT contingent upon church membership. And true believers can be deceived doctrinally. Ultimately it will be Christ who judges who is truly His. In some cases I think people come to Christ in spite of the church they attend rather than because of it.
Make no mistake. I’m not minimizing the danger of false doctrine or religious practices. I’m simply observing the reality that churches that preach the true message of the Gospel and basic Bible doctrine still contain members or regular attendees who have never believed the Gospel message for salvation. In fact, this must be the case because we are not automatically born again just because our parents are. So, those who grow up in Bible-teaching churches still need the salvation experience.
Likewise, a person could be in an entirely false church and be a born-again believer. A child might have believed the Gospel due to hearing it from another child at school or in the neighborhood. But that child might attend a false church that denies the deity of Christ. A person might be converted in a church where even the leaders are not born again, but the reading of scripture and other content such as the songs contain enough of the message of salvation that they believe.
My opinion is that God will lead those who truly belong to Him away from false doctrine and religious practices to have fellowship with other believers and be under the sound teaching of the word.
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`12/24/2011, 5:30:29 PM
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I read through the first page of her comments and saw she was involved in plenty of snippy volleying back and forth, but didn't see that she said anything that you accused her of. It's possible she did even farther back than that, but I don't have to time to do the whole archive on somebody who's apparently not here anymore.
The Mrs Don-o Inquisition TM will cheerfully look at any others you want to drop a dime on.
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That's true, most of the Catholic bashers have zero interest in reading the ACTUAL statements of what the Catholic Church believes, and why. They'd rather just tear down Catholicism on the basis of what they've "seen" Catholics do, like "I've SEEN The Catholics worship the Virgin Mary as a goddess".
It would be like me trying to trash protestantism based not on the actual doctrines of their founders and leaders, but o n what I've SEEN protestants do in public. "The protestants believe giving money to a minister on television will get you saved! I know, I've SEEN 'em do it! Their churches all teach that making TV ministers rich equals salvation for their members!"
Please do.
Well, ostensibly the Catholic church acknowledges that, however it seems like a powerful cabal in the clergy does not agree.
Just like the “deep state” that wields so much power in our government, it looks like the “deep church” has its own agenda that it doesn’t feel the need to run past the general membership for approval.
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Seamus O’Hanrahan :P
Another interesting observation...
Both you and I are EAGER to find any wayward Catholics who “believe protestants are not Christians” are correct them for their theological errors.
The reverse is not true. I’m not seeing any “Evangelicals” on here who say “Yikes, some of my fellow protestants are DENYING that Catholics are Christians? They are obviously WRONG. Please introduce me to them and I will explain to them how the Catholic faith is certainly part of Christendom”
That goes for non-biting Catholics too.
I suspect that maybe some don't hang out in the Religion Forum very much because it has the reputation of being a sado-ecumenical no-go zone. Genial believers and non-believers who peek in from time to time are probably scared right out of the neighborhood.
Most of them (both "mainline" and "evangelical" protestants) seem to be pretty welcoming of non-protestant Christianity and just see Catholics as "fellow Christians with some weird beliefs". I only think maybe 5% of them are the "Catholics ain't Christian and the Catholic faith is a false man-made cult" type mindset.
The problem is that quite a few "Evangelical leaders" DO express that viewpoint, and seem to make it their mission to "turn away Catholics from the error of the Catholic Church" and get us to join some fundamentalist protestant church where we can be "born again" and "saved", cuz otherwise, we're goin' to hell. They think they're saving souls.
I supposed their sincerity is admirable, but I find their tactics to be appalling. The biggest challenge to evangelicalism in Catholicism is getting people who were already raised Catholic but have fallen away to be re-evangelized, not to convince other Christians their church is scum and get them to leave it and join the Catholic Church.
The current crisis will just make low-information Catholics easy picking, unfortunately.
Finally, I think a valid point can be made that these anti-Catholic bigots can get away with preaching ANYTHING they want about the evils of Catholicism in public, but the reverse is not true. If a Catholic minister targeted any protestant church for criticism the way they bash Catholicism (for example, if some famous Catholic priest started quipping that the Methodist Church is satanic and a great lie and that all their members are damned), that would quickly be the end of his career.
But now tons of them retroactively claim he was a good Christian leader.
Which tons of FR Prots mocked his age and called him the NAZI pope?
Could you provide the links please?
And just where are the tons of FR prots now saying he was a good Christian leader?
Could you provide those links as well?
Same here.
You're gonna have to correct a great number of your denomination's writings and a number of your fellow Roman Catholic posters.
The reverse is not true. I’m not seeing any “Evangelicals” on here who say “Yikes, some of my fellow protestants are DENYING that Catholics are Christians?
Roman Catholicism is not New Testament Christianity for a whole host of reasons.
Can some Roman Catholics be true born again believer? Possibly.
However, much of Rome's theology has departed from the Gospel and has become another gospel warned about by Paul.
This whole discussion has become another great example of goalpost moving.
Catholics regularly tell non-Catholics they are going to hell since they are heretics and have ex-=communicated themselves, which effectively damns them according to Catholic teaching.
Matter of fact, Catholic think it’s presumptuous for ANYONE to claim they are going to heaven.
Besides that point, Catholic teaching itself is replete with condemnation for people who don’t submit to Rome.
So finding a post where Catholics telling others they are not Christian might be tough, but they do tell them they are not saved cause they are not Catholic and don’t eat Jesus.
Believing in the Trinity does not equate to salvation.
Even the demons believe i n God and tremble, but cannot be and are not saved.
So sincerely believing in the Holy Trinity is not what saves someone.
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