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To: daniel1212

And God told Moses to lie to pharoah. Moses told him that God wants his people to go out into the desert for a three-day festival. (Not that they are leaving for good.}

And just prior, God tells Moses to have all of the people “borrow” some jewelry from an Egyption, so when they do flee, they will have plundered them. Sounds a lot like stealing. Although with the word “plunder” - it sounds more like a war against the enemy, so then it is not stealing?


156 posted on 08/19/2018 1:02:06 PM PDT by 21twelve
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To: 21twelve

Three chaplains at a military base played poker once a week, and a constant topic during play was whether it was ever permissible to lie. Two chaplains insisted it was sometimes OK to lie, but the third stubbornly insisted it was never OK.

A new commander took over and forbade poker on the base, but the chaplains continued their friendly weekly game. During one game, the CO barged in as the three scrambled to cover the game.

He asked the first two chaplains if they were playing poker and they insisted they were not. He asked the third chaplain, who just looked puzzled and said, “With who?”


159 posted on 08/19/2018 1:10:52 PM PDT by jjotto (Next week, BOOM!, for sure!)
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To: 21twelve
Sorry I did not see your posts until now when i was looking for another one, since i became bust on other forums.

And God told Moses to lie to pharoah. Moses told him that God wants his people to go out into the desert for a three-day festival. (Not that they are leaving for good.} And just prior, God tells Moses to have all of the people “borrow” some jewelry from an Egyption, so when they do flee, they will have plundered them. Sounds a lot like stealing. Although with the word “plunder” - it sounds more like a war against the enemy, so then it is not stealing?

Rather, it would appear that you are the one posting a parroted prevarication, since besides presupposing "borrow" is the correct word, the deception would be that the Israelites were only leaving for a three-day festival, but which was not the request, but that of a three days’ journey into the wilderness:

And they shall hearken to thy voice: and thou shalt come, thou and the elders of Israel, unto the king of Egypt, and ye shall say unto him, The Lord God of the Hebrews hath met with us: and now let us go, we beseech thee, three days’ journey into the wilderness , that we may sacrifice to the Lord our God. (Exodus 3:18)

Thus the requirement was to "Let my people go, that they may serve me in the wilderness," (Exodus 7:16) and a three day journey away from the Egyptians itself means they could not be returning in 3 days, nor does it mean they would be returning at all, but leaving for good in order to serve the Lord as nation is what is subsequently conveyed.

Thus nothing is said of a three-day festival, and return. And thus they took all they took not just a few animals for sacrificing and food, but all, and with no apparent provision for returning. Why expand all that labor just to return after 3 days? Instead, Moses expressed they would be leaving to sacrifice and serve the Lord forever .

And Pharaoh said unto him, Get thee from me, take heed to thyself, see my face no more; for in that day thou seest my face thou shalt die. And Moses said, Thou hast spoken well, I will see thy face again no more. (Exodus 10:28-29)

And Pharaoh finally said,

"go, serve the Lord, as ye have said." Also take your flocks and your herds, as ye have said, and be gone; and bless me also. (Exodus 12:31)

What Moses said was of a three-day journey into the wilderness to the the Lord, not temporarily, and with no mention of returning to bondage. Moreover, the Egyptians seemed to have wanted therm gone for good:

And the Egyptians were urgent upon the people, that they might send them out of the land in haste; for they said, We be all dead men. (Exodus 12:31-33)

Yet if we in-credibly presuppose this request for departure into the wilderness to serve the Lord was only for a temporary leave, and subsequent return to grievous bondage, that borrowing does not mean giving, and thus would be a deception, then the Hebrews would not be in deception for borrowing, for they would have expected a return. Either God had Moses ask for a simple leave for a three-day festival and return, and thus borrowing, or to leave to serve the Lord far away from the Egyptians, with a return being dependent upon the response of the latter. And although God knew what would hardened Pharaoh's heart, and what he would do, yet the effective reason they would not be returning was because Pharaoh was breathing fire:

But the Egyptians pursued after them, all the horses and chariots of Pharaoh, and his horsemen, and his army, and overtook them encamping by the sea, beside Pi–hahiroth, before Baal–zephon. (Exodus 14:9)

It was after this that God said

And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the Lord, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever. (Exodus 14:13)

And after 400 years of harsh slavery due to new Pharaohs deciding to oppress them in contrast to before, and when they were going to abandoned whatever they could not carry with them, then borrowing would actually be effecting justice upon the nation, in addition to the judgments already executed.

It is of note that the Hebrew word translated as "borrow" basically means to inquire, request , and out of the 173 times it occurs in the OT it is usually translated as "ask" or forms thereof, and "borrow" "borrowed" 6 times in the KJV, mostly as regards the account at issue here, and most other translations use the word "ask" in the verses as issue here. It is also translated 4 times as "lent" in the KJV, though most other translations use the word "gave."

Thus all told, we can add this objection to the list of specious skeptic accusations

235 posted on 08/24/2018 5:28:46 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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