Posted on 08/18/2018 10:09:46 AM PDT by Salvation
The Bible and the Church never praise lying, even when there are good intentions behind the act Msgr. Charles Pope
Is lying always wrong?
Question: We are told not to lie, but the Bible says Rahab the prostitute lied to protect the Jewish spies. The Bible later praises her as being justified for doing this. Does Scripture praise lying, which is a sin? — Tamarah E. Jones, La Plata, Maryland
Answer: No. We should be careful to recall that the Bible records many things that are not praiseworthy. There are murders, rapes, theft, polygamy, adultery and the like. The mere reporting of these behaviors is not approval of them. In many cases, such behavior becomes an object lesson to illustrate what happens when such bad behavior ensues. In other cases, the sinful behavior simply goes unremarked. But silence is not the same as approval.
It is true that Rahab lied. Here is the account of it: “So the king of Jericho sent Rahab the order, ‘Bring out the men who have come to you and entered your house, for they have come to spy out the entire land.’ The woman had taken the two men and hidden them, so she said, ‘True, the men you speak of came to me, but I did not know where they came from. At dark, when it was time to close the gate, they left, and I do not know where they went’” (Jos 2:3-5).
The incident is simply recorded. And while the two Hebrew spies benefit from her lie and even promise her reward for her protection, there is no explicit praise in the text for the lie itself.
Later in the Scriptures there is praise of Rahab, but there is no mention of her lie, only her act of receiving the spies and sending them out by a protected way. Here are those texts: “By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish with the disobedient, for she had received the spies in peace” (Heb 11:31). “And in the same way was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?” (Jas 2:25).
Hence we should be careful not to say that the Scriptures affirm lying in this matter. There is a care in the sacred text to focus the praise on her overall benevolence, not the lie. St. Augustine affirms this stance: “That therefore which was rewarded in them was, not [her] deceit, but [her] benevolence; benignity of mind, not iniquity of lying” (“To Consentius, Against Lying,” 32).
I hope you're having a nice evening.
Having a wonderful evening.....however you “bs” post tracks with some of your other....shall we say iffy posts.
The OT carried the idea of lying that you meant harm toward the person you lied to.
I had an argument once with a Born Again preacher. He insisted there are no degrees of sin and the family who lied to the Nazis to shield Jews committed as great a sin as the Nazis who murdered them.
I contend that God never intended us to turn off our brains.
Do the Scriptures allow a "degree of sin" in regards to lying?
Nothing in my vast experience in the Church supports that assessment. Perhaps you have been misinformed.
Not according to the Born Again preacher. He told me Scripture says a sin to save a life is as bad as murder.
Go figure.
Ah, I see your error. Somebody must have lied to you about what the Church teaches.
Whether or not a lie is a mortal sin depends upon the nature and seriousness of the lie. For example:
Mortal sin: If you tell us vair ze Judan are, ve vill not harm zem.
Venial sin: No Mommy, I didn’t take a piece of candy.
No sin: We have no idea where the Anne Frank family is.
Of course, the Born Again preacher contends all three are serious sins, as serious as rape or murder.
Go figure!
Does it break the commandment against lying?
No, it does not, as I said in post 54. It’s a question of opinion, and opinions are not qualifiable as “lying.” Only if the lady in question said, “Do you think I’m fat?” and you said, “No,” when you really thought she was, would it be a “lie,” that is, a false statement of your opinion at the time.
At that point, you’d be an absolutely hideous person, but you wouldn’t have lied, so you could say, “I thank you, God, that I am not like other people, and especially those who are kind to others and don’t tell them they’re fat, like that guy over there who told his wife he thought she was adorable ...”
The reality though of the NT is that all sin separates us from God....apart from the forgiveness of Christ.
I’m confused. Do you not understand the difference between fact and opinion, or between, “Let me tell you every nasty thing that has ever crossed my mind regarding you,” and “I think I’ll be silent.”?
I agree that all sin separates us from God, apart from the forgiveness achieved by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross.
Where it seems we disagree is on definitions. I don’t think refraining from being a cacophagous sphincter to your loved ones, if you know what “loved ones” means, is a sin. You seem to think it is.
What transgression that is “grave matter” do you think I have committed?
Review your post....you might can figure it out.
The most interesting Biblical “lie” which I do not believe is actually a lie, is when Jesus told his brothers that He was not going up to Jerusalem for Passover.
JOHN 7:8—DID JESUS LIE TO HIS BROTHERS?
PROBLEM: Jesus’ unbelieving brothers challenged Him to go up to Jerusalem and show Himself openly if He was the Messiah (7:3–4).
Jesus refused, saying, “I am not yet going up to this feast, for My time has not yet fully come” (v. 8). However, only a few verses later Jesus “went up to the feast” (v. 10).
SOLUTION: Jesus did not go up to Jerusalem in the way in which His brothers suggested. They suggested He go and be “known openly” (7:4). But the Scripture explicitly declares that “He also went up to the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret” (7:10).
http://defendinginerrancy.com/bible-solutions/John_7.8.php
(Ooops. I remember you are RCC, so I guess you dispute the fact that Jesus had brothers? Oh well. The Bible text is the Bible text. Jesus had brothers who challenged whether or not He was the Messiah... “who are my brothers, and my mother? For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.”.)
Well, you've now for sure committed one.
Proving once again, it is usually the Roman Catholic, though not always, who resorts to the personal attack and/or profanity when the argument goes against them.
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