1) They never had mass on Christmas or Christmas Eve.
Outright lie.
Willow typically does about 10 Christmas services, with 4-5 on Christmas Eve day itself and the others 1+2 days before that.
They often had political speakers, including the Clintons, and regularly Dick Durbin (but never a conservative)
Again, another lie.
I attended Willow when Clinton spoke at the leadership summit, but did not attend the summit myself.
I also know the story surrounding his speaking there.
Oliver North was there, and protesters were out in front of the church by the road.
I WAS THERE for that.
Now maybe Durbin spoke at Willow after I left, but never while I was there.
Doing a quick search on the internet, I can’t find one instance of Durbin speaking at WCCC.
And no pictures either.
But maybe I didn’t look far enough.
I was there when Debra Norville was there.
And also Donna Rice.
Oliver North, Donna Rice and Debra Norville all claim Christ.
Never heard Durbin claim Christ.
(Not saying he hasn’t)
Clinton didn’t speak during church services, but at the annual church leadership summit, that 1000’s of church leaders throughout the country/world attend.
He didn’t speak on spiritual or moral issues, but on leadership issues, as he was POTUS at the time.
While I was there, politics were never brought from the stage.
If a speaker was “political” like Ollie or even Donna Hart, the subject wasn’t about politics, but about their walk with Christ.
3) Abortion is OK
When I went there, abortion wasn’t really discussed, because it wasn’t mentioned SPECIFICALLY in the Bible, the church avoided what it deemed a gray or overly controversial subject. ESPECIALLY when you have ministries that deal with the hurts of the past.
Abortion WAS NOT given an okay OR promoted... at least while I was there...
But I’ve been away for some years now.
4) They refused to use the word “sin”, and it was removed from all of their books. My brother explained they thought the word alienated people.
Pure unadulterated BS.
Though familiar with the “avoidance” of the word sin.
To say that it was removed from all their books is just outright garbage.
You have your OPINION
Based on how you view your brother.
I have FACTS from first hand accounts of my actually being there.
1) You are a liar, but that’s OK because you go to Willow Creek:
http://jaspry.blogspot.com/2005/12/willow-creek-church-cancels-christmas.html
2) My brother had pictures of him when Hillary was there.... TWICE and pictures of Durbin.
And yes, I heard of the Oliver North thing, the hippies protested him, and extra Barrington cops had to be called out. Because you know.... Willow Creek Hippies.
I never attended Willow Creek, I’m not into Hippy Cults (or giving my money to cult leaders like Hybels), but my brothers family has no reason to lie when they pontificated for hours on how proud they were that “sin” was removed from their church, and Christians who used the word “sin” are going against Jesus.
Here is some good stuff for you on how Hybels created the church on a entertainment model, meant to draw in as many people (donors) as possible without offending anyone.
I don’t know when you were “there”, and I’m no expert on the church. I now find lots of articles that are tongue in cheek stating “Willow Creek is now using the word “sin” .... against Hybels...” That alludes to the notion that the word was AVOIDED, and strongly so. I’m not sure what “books” my brother would refer to, I got the impression they re-wrote their own bible.
You will not convince me that my abortion loving, gay-loving (all inclusive, except for his own family, and all things wholesome) brother who was at one time a normal person, did not get indoctrinated into this cult around the time he turned 50.
Every waking day, and most of his savings were spent on worshiping this Hybels character. He became an outspoken critic of all religious things or groups “other than Willow Creek”.
He began lecturing my kids (who were in college at the time) about how bad their parents were (in a nutshell) and they should go with him and his wife to a few services at Willow Creek.
They thought he had become a kook as well.
I gave up arguing or trying to talk sense in to my brother when I realized he was a “cultist” and he worshiped not at the bible, but at the altar of Hybels, and a desire to “fit in” with the Barrington / Inverness liberal crowd.
I will recant on no services on Christmas Eve, it looks like they just haven’t done Christmas services for many years.
But, I also have more to add on this, because I’ve kept it bottled up for the most part.
My little brother was a normal person, he worked in an accounting firm, typical middle class. His current wife got him involved in Willow Creek when he was about 50 years old. The change was dramatic, but measured over time.
Over the next couple of years, he rallied against everything that we grew up with (Chicago Catholic). He became spiteful against my family and my other brothers family.
When my old man passed away, we sold his house, and we let my two younger brothers (Mike and Bill) spit the proceeds.
He lost his job the next year.
Now, my other littler brother worked with him at the same accounting firm in the 80’s and they had mutual friends (I’ll get back to this).
So, Mike (my brainwashed brother) and his wife had a blow out with us one Christmas (and it was over abortion, his wife brought it up AT CHRISTMAS!). We stopped talking after that. They ruined the last (and it wasn’t the first) Christmas with our family. When he left, my wife told him not to come back. That is a LOT for my wife to say. Mike and his wife spent much of the Christmas evening ridiculing my family (but mainly my wife and daughter - taking the “Jesus believes in Women’s Rights” stance, and you should be ashamed of yourself!). My wife was almost in tears, my daughter was devastated and it caused her some grief over a period of time, to have someone who claimed to be so “close to Jesus” attack her for her pro-life stance. It was a crushing and devastating experience for all of us at the dinner table that Christmas night.
Ok, so back to him losing his job. This was before the blow out... My youngest brother Billy explained he lost his job because of Willow Creek. supposedly it’s all Mike would talk about at work (and politics, rallying against “BusHitler”, and he wouldn’t work any extra hours on weekends (accountants work weekends sometimes, especially during tax time). Because he volunteered at Willow Creek on weekends. Billy also said he heard Mike went off on a rant on the owner of the firm about how he was a Jew.... Not a good move...
OK, so, now Mike has his house paid off (because of the proceeds from our mom & dad’s house), but in a YEAR he is broke and loses his house. How? Not from gambling or drugs, Billy said he was giving so much to the church, and basically praying he was going to get a job at Willow Creek (it sounds like they strung him along... give more money... give more money... we’ll give you a job... I have no proof of this, just what my youngest brother implied). I also think Mike thought “it was the right thing to do”. I think he was either brain-washed, wanted to fit in, was naive or all of the above.
He eventually lost his house (but he also leased a Mercedes and was hanging around the Barrington Willow Creekers in that final year)...
Around that time, my baby brother sadly asked if we could help Mike out and get him a job or lend him money (I am part owner in a contracting company). I told him that Mike should come see me... he never did.
Last I heard they moved to southern Illinois to live with his wife’s family (somewhere around Carbondale).
That church sapped him of everything he had, and changed him for the worse. He was no hippy until Willow Creek (and by Hippy I don’t mean the patchouli-get high type, I mean the far lefty fringe type, the commune type I guess, that’s why I call him a “hippy”, but he wore custom cuff shirts and links, dress slacks and Italian shoes...
It’s a cult. All he would talk about was Hybels. He was basically a saint to my brother (and many other Willow Creekers). I remember he was so proud that he called me when he got to sit at the “big table” one dinner with Hybels... it was as if he had met the Messiah himself.
I feel bad for cultists. I really do.
Sorry for the long-winded tale, I just felt like getting this off my chest, there is a lot of pain there, and it is centered on Willow Creek and the Hybels guy.
I never once attended the church. I can only relate the damage it did to my brother, and I’ve heard more and more stories like this over the years from all sorts of people.
And now to find out the “elders” and Hybels were sexually preying on women and children (some handicap), I know I was right in my belief all along.
I feel sorry for all the victims who were taken for money, including my brother, but mostly for the women and kids who were used and abused by these monsters.
Willow Creek took in $75 million last year, and is worth a quarter billion dollars. http://www.ecfa.org/MemberProfile.aspx?ID=6052
I’m not even sure that Rajneesh’s had that much money (converted for inflation) in the day. Maybe they did.
I had to look up when all this was taking place, we invaded Iraq in 2003, and he turned 50 in 2002, so it was a few year period before his “blow out” with us which culminated on I think 2005 Christmas Day. So that was 13 years ago. (I mentioned invading Iraq because he would drone on and on about Bush and Iraq, every time I saw him, and I actually got the impression this was a Willow Creek thing, he explained his church was very anti-war, he insulted me often in this period for my Army service (I enlisted in 65 when he was like 12 or 13, and he never got drafted) , he had gone total peace hippy - again, I say hippy, because those are people who were anti-war when I was a young man, but he wasn’t a tambourine playing long beard hippy, at least in public). This is important, because BEFORE Willow Creek, he was always proud of his older brother (me). After Willow Creek, I was a bad person for my time in SEA and VN. There was a definite shift in our relationship.
You said you attended Willow Creek, so if you were in that time period, maybe you know my brother. He spend every hour he could at that church, in all sorts of youth guidance roles and setting up stages and lighting.
I don’t know how the church has changed since, but apparently not for the better....
Hopefully, they also discuss Hell, the default destination for the unsaved, or else they are doing the congregation a disservice.