Posted on 08/11/2018 10:24:01 AM PDT by Salvation
How?
Please read the original article. St. Paul also talked about baptizing entire households — that includes infants!
The priest’s words —
I baptize you, child’s name, in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit with three dips of water.
The Holy Spirit is there.
*8The wider question to me is why use the church to indoctrinate infants and babes to homo stuff, trans stuff, racial stuff..**
Do you have proof of this happening in the Catholic Church? Please provide a hot link.
The change in their hearts come from the Sacrament of Baptism.
Over and over in His letters to the seven churches, Jesus admonishes the victors to “hold fast to what you were taught when you first believed.” So just do it! Hold fast!
That is not supporter by Scripture in ANY WAY.
People must ask for Baptism. Or the parents ask for the Baptism of their child.
..........................................................
So Catholic (converted from Islam) parents of a Muslim child can ask a Priest to baptize the child and the child becomes Catholic?
And can you cite any scripture to back up what you say? Maybe one or two biblical examples of parents asking their infants to be baptized?
None of those quotes support infant baptism.
“It is therefore, impossible to prove that infant baptism is valid from the New Testament. It’s impossible to support it from the New Testament or for that matter from the Old Testament. German theologian, Schleiermacher wrote, “All traces of infant baptism, which have been asserted to be found in the New Testament must first be inserted there.” He’s right.
The host of German and front ranked theologues and scholars of the church of England, the Church of England, the Anglican Church, which believes in infant baptism, a host of their scholars have united to affirm, not only the absence of infant baptism from the New Testament, but from apostolic and post apostolic times.
It isn’t in the New Testament and it didn’t exist in the earliest church. They believe it arose around the second or third century. Lutheran professor, Kurt Aland, after intensive study of infant baptism says, “There is no definite proof of the practice until after the third century,” and he says, “This cannot be contested.”...
...I really find it very hard for myself to understand how they can argue about something that isn’t in the Bible, as over against what is....”
https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/80-194/a-scriptural-critique-of-infant-baptism
“I don’t know what the meaning would be of baby baptism, it has no meaning. I don’t know what the meaning would be of splattering water on somebody’s head, trickling it, pouring it out of a pitcher. I don’t know what the meaning would be of putting water on someone’s forehead, or three or four spots in the sign of a cross on their face. I don’t know what the meaning of that is. Biblically it has absolutely no meaning. But I do know what the meaning is of submerging someone in water. That’s clear. Because that is what the New Testament teaches.
When you come to faith in Jesus Christ, you’re immersed into Christ. I want to show you this because you need to understand it. So let’s…let’s take a look at this in Romans 6…Romans 6. We won’t spend a lot of time here, but just to give you the picture. Romans 6:3, now this is a dry section, okay? There’s no real H2O here. While this gives us the spiritual reality pictured in water baptism, this is not the water baptism, this is the spiritual reality section.
“Do you not know,” Romans 6:3, “that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?” When you come to Christ, you’re literally immersed into His death. You die with Him there so that all your sins are paid for in full…solidarity with Him.”
https://www.gty.org/library/sermons-library/80-370/believers-baptism
www.bookofconcord.org/lc-6-baptism.php
Of Infant Baptism.
47] Here a question occurs by which the devil, through his sects, confuses the world, namely, Of Infant Baptism, whether children also believe, and are justly baptized. Concerning this we say briefly: 48] Let the simple dismiss this question from their minds, and refer it to the learned. But if you wish to answer, 49] then answer thus:-
That the Baptism of infants is pleasing to Christ is sufficiently proved from His own work, namely, that God sanctifies many of them who have been thus baptized, and has given them the Holy Ghost; and that there are yet many even to-day in whom we perceive that they have the Holy Ghost both because of their doctrine and life; as it is also given to us by the grace of God that we can explain the Scriptures and come to the knowledge of Christ, which is impossible without the Holy Ghost. 50] But if God did not accept the baptism of infants, He would not give the Holy Ghost nor any of His gifts to any of them; in short, during this long time unto this day no man upon earth could have been a Christian. Now, since God confirms Baptism by the gifts of His Holy Ghost, as is plainly perceptible in some of the church fathers, as St. Bernard, Gerson, John Hus, and others, who were baptized in infancy, and since the holy Christian Church cannot perish until the end of the world, they must acknowledge that such infant baptism is pleasing to God. For He can never be opposed to Himself, or support falsehood and wickedness, or for its promotion impart His grace and Spirit. 51] This is indeed the best and strongest proof for the simple-minded and unlearned. For they shall not take from us or overthrow this article: I believe a holy Christian Church, the communion of saints.
52] Further, we say that we are not so much concerned to know whether the person baptized believes or not; for on that account Baptism does not become invalid; but everything depends upon the Word and command of God. 53] This now is perhaps somewhat acute, but it rests entirely upon what I have said, that Baptism is nothing else than water and the Word of God in and with each other, that is, when the Word is added to the water, Baptism is valid, even though faith be wanting. For my faith does not make Baptism, but receives it. Now, Baptism does not become invalid even though it be wrongly received or employed; since it is not bound (as stated) to our faith, but to the Word.
54] For even though a Jew should to-day come dishonestly and with evil purpose, and we should baptize him in all good faith, we must say that his baptism is nevertheless genuine. For here is the water together with the Word of God, even though he does not receive it as he should, just as those who unworthily go to the Sacrament receive the true Sacrament, even though they do not believe.
55] Thus you see that the objection of the sectarians is vain. For (as we have said) even though infants did not believe, which, however, is not the case, yet their baptism as now shown would be valid, and no one should rebaptize them; just as nothing is detracted from the Sacrament though some one approach it with evil purpose, and he could not be allowed on account of his abuse to take it a second time the selfsame hour, as though he had not received the true Sacrament at first; for that would mean to blaspheme and profane the Sacrament in the worst manner. How dare we think that God's Word and ordinance should be wrong and invalid because we make a wrong use of it?
56] Therefore I say, if you did not believe then believe now and say thus: The baptism indeed was right, but I, alas! did not receive it aright. For I myself also, and all who are baptized, must speak thus before God: I come hither in my faith and in that of others, yet I cannot rest in this, that I believe, and that many people pray for me; but in this I rest, that it is Thy Word and command. Just as I go to the Sacrament trusting not in my faith, but in the Word of Christ; whether I am strong or weak, that I commit to God. But this I know, that He bids me go, eat and drink, etc., and gives me His body and blood; that will not deceive me or prove false to me.
57] Thus we do also in infant baptism. We bring the child in the conviction and hope that it believes, and we pray that God may grant it faith; but we do not baptize it upon that, but solely upon the command of God. Why so? Because we know that God does not lie. I and my neighbor and, in short, all men, may err and deceive, but the Word of God cannot err.
58] Therefore they are presumptuous, clumsy minds that draw such inferences and conclusions as these: Where there is not the true faith, there also can be no true Baptism. Just as if I would infer: If I do not believe, then Christ is nothing; or thus: If I am not obedient, then father, mother, and government are nothing. Is that a correct conclusion, that whenever any one does not do what he ought, the thing in itself shall be nothing and of no value? 59] My dear, just invert the argument and rather draw this inference: For this very reason Baptism is something and is right, because it has been wrongly received. For if it were not right and true in itself, it could not be misused nor sinned against. The saying is: Abusus non tollit, sed confirmat substantiam, Abuse does not destroy the essence, but confirms it. For gold is not the less gold though a harlot wear it in sin and shame.
60] Therefore let it be decided that Baptism always remains true, retains its full essence, even though a single person should be baptized, and he, in addition, should not believe truly. For God's ordinance and Word cannot be made variable or be altered by men. 61] But these people, the fanatics, are so blinded that they do not see the Word and command of God, and regard Baptism and the magistrates only as they regard water in the brook or in pots, or as any other man; and because they do not see faith nor obedience, they conclude that they are to be regarded as invalid. 62] Here lurks a concealed seditious devil, who would like to tear the crown from the head of authority and then trample it under foot, and, in addition, pervert and bring to naught all the works and ordinances of God. 63] Therefore we must be watchful and well armed, and not allow ourselves to be directed nor turned away from the Word, in order that we may not regard Baptism as a mere empty sign, as the fanatics dream.
64] Lastly, we must also know what Baptism signifies, and why God has ordained just such external sign and ceremony for the Sacrament by which we are first received into the Christian Church. 65] But the act or ceremony is this, that we are sunk under the water, which passes over us, and afterwards are drawn out again. These two parts, to be sunk under the water and drawn out again, signify the power and operation of Baptism, which is nothing else than putting to death the old Adam, and after that the resurrection of the new man, both of which must take place in us all our lives, so that a truly Christian life is nothing else than a daily baptism, once begun and ever to be continued. For this must be practised without ceasing, that we ever keep purging away whatever is of the old Adam, and that that which belongs to the new man come forth. 66] But what is the old man? It is that which is born in us from Adam, angry, hateful, envious, unchaste, stingy, lazy, haughty, yea, unbelieving, infected with all vices, and having by nature nothing good in it. 67] Now, when we are come into the kingdom of Christ, these things must daily decrease, that the longer we live we become more gentle, more patient, more meek, and ever withdraw more and more from unbelief, avarice, hatred, envy, haughtiness.
68] This is the true use of Baptism among Christians, as signified by baptizing with water. Where this, therefore, is not practised, but the old man is left unbridled, so as to continually become stronger, that is not using Baptism, but striving against Baptism. 69] For those who are without Christ cannot but daily become worse, according to the proverb which expresses the truth, "Worse and worse-the longer, the worse." 70] If a year ago one was proud and avaricious, then he is much prouder and more avaricious this year, so that the vice grows and increases with him from his youth up. A young child has no special vice; but when it grows up, it becomes unchaste and impure, and when it reaches maturity, real vices begin to prevail the longer, the more.
71] Therefore the old man goes unrestrained in his nature if he is not checked and suppressed by the power of Baptism. On the other hand, where men have become Christians, he daily decreases until he finally perishes. That is truly to be buried in Baptism, and daily to come forth again. 72] Therefore the external sign is appointed not only for a powerful effect, but also for a signification. 73] Where, therefore, faith flourishes with its fruits, there it has no empty signification, but the work [of mortifying the flesh] accompanies it; but where faith is wanting, it remains a mere unfruitful sign.
74] And here you see that Baptism, both in its power and signification, comprehends also the third Sacrament, which has been called repentance, 75] as it is really nothing else than Baptism. For what else is repentance but an earnest attack upon the old man [that his lusts be restrained] and entering upon a new life? Therefore, if you live in repentance, you walk in Baptism, which not only signifies such a new life, but also produces, begins, and exercises it. 76] For therein are given grace, the Spirit, and power to suppress the old man, so that the new man may come forth and become strong.
77] Therefore our Baptism abides forever; and even though some one should fall from it and sin, nevertheless we always have access thereto, that we may again subdue the old man. 78] But we need not again be sprinkled with water; for though we were put under the water a hundred times, it would nevertheless be only one Baptism, although the operation and signification continue and remain. 79] Repentance, therefore, is nothing else than a return and approach to Baptism, that we repeat and practise what we began before, but abandoned.
80] This I say lest we fall into the opinion in which we were for a long time, imagining that our Baptism is something past, which we can no longer use after we have fallen again into sin. The reason is, that it is regarded only according to the external act once performed [and completed]. 81] And this arose from the fact that St. Jerome wrote that repentance is the second plank by which we must swim forth and cross over after the ship is broken, on which we step and are carried across when we come into the Christian Church. 82] Thereby the use of Baptism has been abolished so that it can profit us no longer.
Therefore the statement is not correct, or at any rate not rightly understood. For the ship never breaks, because (as we have said) it is the ordinance of God, and not a work of ours; but it happens, indeed, that we slip and fall out of the ship. Yet if any one fall out, let him see to it that he swim up and cling to it till he again come into it and live in it, as he had formerly begun.
83] Thus it appears what a great, excellent thing Baptism is, which delivers us from the jaws of the devil and makes us God's own, suppresses and takes away sin, and then daily strengthens the new man; and is and remains ever efficacious until we pass from this estate of misery to eternal glory.
84] For this reason let every one esteem his Baptism as a daily dress in which he is to walk constantly, that he may ever be found in the faith and its fruits, that he suppress the old man and grow up in the new. 85] For if we would be Christians, we must practise the work whereby we are Christians. 86] But if any one fall away from it, let him again come into it. For just as Christ, the Mercy-seat, does not recede from us or forbid us to come to Him again, even though we sin, so all His treasure and gifts also remain. If, therefore, we have once in Baptism obtained forgiveness of sin, it will remain every day, as long as we live, that is, as long as we carry the old man about our neck.
I agree. I never understood that. I was baptized at 12, after taking classes and being able to accept Christ as my Savior.
I also was taught that I could speak with God on my own without going through a third party. Never understood confession to a human being. But, I don’t fault them for their traditions.
Back in the old days, princes of the church believed that dying without having been baptised was a route to hell. Solution? Infant baptism.
New problem. They then decided sinning in a state of grace, ie, post-baptism, was worse than just sinning. Solution? Don’t get baptised until near death, ie, adult baptism.
New problem. An unbaptised adult prince could fall off his horse, strike his head on a rock, and die hell-bound.
Solution? Make up something called purgatory where baptised people who sinned anyway could work off their sins, then go on into heaven.
No problem. Infant baptism to secure heaven until sins can be worked off.
See? Religion’s easy if you make it up as you go along.
No, it does not.
Lack of familiarity with the writings of Torah brings about such vacuous statements.
Israelites did not become a functioning person until age 13. Prior to that one is a child and cannot make one’s own decisions.
Mikvah (the term translated into Greek as Baptism when the Hebrew words of the NT began to be translated to Greek) is not simply immersion.
It is the process by which one becomes a part of the Kehillah. It begins with confession and repentance of one’s sin, and then casting one’s self into a running stream, the water flowing over one’s head symbolizing cleansing of the soul.
Infants are simply incapable of this process.
.
.
>> “See? Religion’s easy if you make it up as you go along.” <<
Religion is man making up rules so he won’t have to follow Yehova’s commandments.
.
James 5:16
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
**We have quotes from St. Peter, St. Paul and even Jesus himself.**
Then why don’t you heed them?
Peter: Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.....
Peter says every one must repent (proper belief leads to repentance) and be baptized.
Paul and Silas told the jailer that he had to believe, and preached the Word to the man’s entire household (they must have been able to listen and comprehend). Then they left the house and went somewhere where there was ample water, and the household was baptized.
Jesus said: “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved....”. Mark 16:16
In the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word established. Where are the specific cases in the scriptures of infants being baptized?
Bookmark
I was baptized in a church, by immersion. Our kids were sprinkled in a church. But as an adult our youngest son has been baptized twice in Pacific Ocean. He found it very meaningful and moving. A lot of people get baptized while in the Holy Lands in River Jordan. It is all authentic, so long as it is in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
But so far as doubt is concerned, even Mother Teresa said she had doubts from time to time.....
I always only follow Scripture, not dogma.
The two issues do not go hand-in-glove, and there are conservative branches of Presbyterians, Lutherans, and other Reformed churches that hold to infant baptism, although not for the same reasons the author cites.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.