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More Roman Catholic Catechism Changes?
Pastoral Meanderings ^ | 08-10-2018 | Pastor Peters (LCMS)

Posted on 08/10/2018 3:09:22 PM PDT by NRx

A week or so ago the Vatican announced a change in the Catechism of the Catholic Church which changed the teaching regarding the capital punishment.  It was now deemed inadmissible -- whatever that means -- or no longer moral (though Scripture clearly allows this).  Now another change, perhaps more devious and clandestine than the announced change on the death penalty.  This represents the removal of one sentence and replacing it with something that is completely different, one that fails to acknowledge homosexuality to be objectively disordered and instead sympathetically suggests that homosexual tendency is not at all a choice but a condition natural to their birth.  Perhaps this is how Pope Francis plans to change the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church, a few words at a time.  If that is the case, who knows where this will lead and who is checking the catechism on a daily basis to see what changes have crept in.

This is another version of change that comes not openly or by consideration but through the back door -- an attempt to re-define the faith without telling anyone about it.  Lutherans may only be interested in this for curiosity' sake but we would do well to remember the principle.  The most dangerous change comes through the back door and not through open consideration of that change and its debate on the basis of Scripture and the fathers.  

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P85.HTM
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P85.HTM
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

It appears that They do not choose their homosexual condition was in the text until something about 2004 or so when the text was changed to This inclination, which is objectively disordered.  While it may, indeed, be true of at least some that they do not choose their homosexual condition, this is a point unrelated to the issue of objectively disordered.  Children are born with many conditions not of their choice but the result of a sinful world in which brokenness exists not only in material condition but in spiritual and in which desire is tainted by sin as much as act and choice.  Yet, the question remains why changes like this would not be transparent and why there would not be explanation for the change.  Coupled with Pope Francis' words that God made them gay, this represents a distinct softening of the previous stance and a shift away from the very idea that homosexuality is disordered.  If that is the case, then my premise still stands.  The most dangerous changes in the faith are the ones that enter through the back door without debate and not necessarily the ones on which discussion or even a vote is taken.  Too often, the discussion follows the acceptance of change and the vote merely affirms the change already embedded in the hearts and minds of the people.

 


TOPICS: Catholic; Mainline Protestant; Moral Issues; Theology
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1 posted on 08/10/2018 3:09:22 PM PDT by NRx
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To: NRx

“...suggests that homosexual tendency is not at all a choice but a condition natural to their birth.”

Alcoholism is a condition, perversion is a condition, blah, blah, blah. Yet they make a CHOICE to continue down these paths. IT IS A CHOICE!! A CHOICE TO SIN IN THESE WAYS!


2 posted on 08/10/2018 3:18:21 PM PDT by SgtHooper (If you remember the 60's, YOU WEREN'T THERE!)
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To: NRx

3 posted on 08/10/2018 3:44:42 PM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: NRx

the Canon could certainly have some modifications...
but...
if the Vatican were to ask me, which is NOT likely, ha!....
I would recommend NOT watering down the moral law...and to not contradict any clear Biblical teachings.

that only destroys the church’s credibility


4 posted on 08/10/2018 3:46:49 PM PDT by faithhopecharity ( "Politicans aren't born, they're excreted." -Marcus Tillius Cicero (3 BCE))
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To: NRx


5 posted on 08/10/2018 3:48:02 PM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: NRx
Well, they long ago changed their doctrines on geocentrism and creation. Why not?

It's amazing to watch Catholics defending evolution while complaining about other changes in their teachings. As I have said before, they seem to pine for a new Middle Ages--with evolution.

6 posted on 08/10/2018 3:54:45 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator ("Conservatism" without G-d is just another form of Communism.)
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To: NRx

These are not ex cathedra and so don’t count for anything other than msn news. Just like the word “admissible.”


7 posted on 08/10/2018 4:08:05 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NRx

LOL - tuche’


8 posted on 08/10/2018 4:20:59 PM PDT by circlecity
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To: Salvation

I just can’t see a difference between speaking “ex cathedral” and changing the catechism. The catechism is supposed to represent the immutable precepts of God. To change it on a whim, on the basis of changed social conditions shows a fundament misunderstanding or misrepresentation of what God’s Word truly is. I see this as a fundamental shift to a man based theology. Even Aquinas must be spinning in his grave.


9 posted on 08/10/2018 4:31:32 PM PDT by circlecity
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To: circlecity; Salvation

Salvation, like many post Vatican II Catholics, do not know what they are talking about. All of Catholic doctrine matters, not just the “ex cathedra” ones.


10 posted on 08/10/2018 4:35:56 PM PDT by piusv (Pray for a return to the pre-Vatican II (Catholic) Faith)
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To: Salvation
These are not ex cathedra and so don’t count for anything other than msn news. Just like the word “admissible.”

Whoa....wait.

You're saying the catechism is not official Roman Catholic dogma????

11 posted on 08/10/2018 4:45:03 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: piusv; Salvation
Salvation, like many post Vatican II Catholics, do not know what they are talking about. All of Catholic doctrine matters, not just the “ex cathedra” ones.

Seems like Roman Catholics like to pick and chose which part(s) of Roman Catholic teaching they want to adhere to.

***************

Scripture does not change......Roman Catholic "tradition" has, does and will change.

12 posted on 08/10/2018 4:46:59 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: piusv

I realize that. It’s what the current pontiff is saying that is not ex cathedra and thus of no essence to me.


13 posted on 08/10/2018 4:50:27 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: piusv; Salvation

Hey, be fair. I have always found Salvation to be one of the most gracious posters on the FR religion boards, Protestant or Catholic. I have always enjoyed conversing with her as she is always thoughtful and sincere.


14 posted on 08/10/2018 4:58:41 PM PDT by circlecity
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To: faithhopecharity
Pope Francis has no authority to reverse - reject - repudiate Catholic Moral Doctrine in any respect.

None whatsoever.

15 posted on 08/10/2018 5:02:38 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them." Ephesians 5:8-11)
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To: circlecity; Salvation
Hey, be fair. I have always found Salvation to be one of the most gracious posters on the FR religion boards, Protestant or Catholic. I have always enjoyed conversing with her as she is always thoughtful and sincere.

Post something critical of Roman Catholicism..... you may have a different experience.

16 posted on 08/10/2018 5:04:19 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Salvation; circlecity
Salvation: But what he is saying (heresy) should "be of essence to you" even though he isn't "speaking ex cathedra".

Circlecity: Salvation may be one of the nicest posters on this board, but I couldn't care less whether someone is sincere if they are sincerely wrong.

17 posted on 08/10/2018 5:06:41 PM PDT by piusv (Pray for a return to the pre-Vatican II (Catholic) Faith)
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To: NRx

lol...the back door.


18 posted on 08/10/2018 5:12:50 PM PDT by piusv (Pray for a return to the pre-Vatican II (Catholic) Faith)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Pope Francis has no authority to reverse - reject - repudiate Catholic Moral Doctrine in any respect.

Yet you, as a lay Roman Catholic, have no ability to decide what is or is not "Catholic Moral Doctrine"....only your "Magestirium" can decide that.

19 posted on 08/10/2018 5:35:32 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone; Salvation; piusv

You got it, the catechism is not dogma per se. It’s a simplified, lay-oriented reference to teachings and doctrine. It also is not Canon Law.

Dogma is truth. Dogma cannot change because it’s revealed by God. For example, the Immaculate Conception and the Resurrection are both dogmas of the faith. The Church does not have many; I believe there are about 200 of them.


20 posted on 08/10/2018 5:55:11 PM PDT by Marchmain (Things are not what they seem.)
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