Posted on 08/03/2018 9:55:47 PM PDT by unlearner
LEXINGTON, Kentucky, Pro-homosexual dissident 'Catholic' groups see in Pope Francis' ‘changing’ of the Church’s teaching on the death penalty the hope that the Church will one day also change its teaching against homosexuality.
New Ways Ministry called the change in the Catechism proof that "Church teaching can change."
"It's important for Catholic advocates for LGBT equality to take note of this change because for decades Catholic opponents of LGBT equality argued that it is impossible to change church teaching. They often pointed to the fact that condemnations of same-sex relationships were inscribed in the Catechism, and so were not open for discussion or change. Yet, the teaching on the death penalty is in the Catechism, too, and, in fact, to make this change in teaching, it was the text of the Catechism that Francis changed," the group stated on its website.
New Ways Ministry, which works to "promote the acceptance of LGBT people," said that Pope Francis' move will help advance "LGBT equality" in a number of ways.
"First, we now have a clear, explicit contemporary example of church teaching changing, and also a look into how it can be done: with a papal change to the Catechism," it stated.
"Second, we can see that the process that brought about this change has been decades of theological debate and discussion, and not just a papal whim. That means the theological and even ecclesial discussions and debates right now about LGBT people have great potential to shape future changes in church teaching in regard to those topics," it added.
The pro-gay group was not the only one to see the significance of Pope Francis' rewrite of the Catechism.
In a post that appeared yesterday on Twitter, Lexington-based “Fortunate Families” wrote:
The church cannot change its teaching. That is what so many others say about other topics, for example regarding LGBTQ persons. But doctrine develops. Today’s news is a sterling example.
"The idea first floated by [the] Pope on Catechism’s 25th anniversary last fall to signify development of doctrine,” the tweet continued, “rescript issued today sees Francis issue edit of the 1994 official text, now deeming capital punishment ‘inadmissible’-- the new formulation.”
“Development of doctrine”, legitimately used to describe how the Catholic Church refines and expands, but never undermines or rejects, what was taught earlier, has now been interpreted by some to mean the erasure of settled Church teaching.
Critics say Pope Francis attempted to do that yesterday when he promulgated a new teaching concerning the death penalty in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, saying that it was “inadmissible.” The perennial teaching of the Church, based on Scripture and unanimously accepted by the Church Fathers and every pope until Francis, is that legitimate civil authority may impose the death penalty on a malefactor. Although both Saint John Paul II and Benedict XVI were strongly opposed to capital punishment--and John Paul’s Catechism strongly circumscribed it--neither pope denied this principle.
Pope Francis’ innovation has already become a club for American liberals to beat conservatives with. Jane Fleming Kleeb, Chair of the Democratic Party in Nebraska, has tweeted “Let's be clear Nebraskans, @GovRicketts is going against the teachings of the church. We can change leaders by voting different on Nov. 6--Democrats are against the death penalty.”
Fortunate Families, founded in 1992 by Mary Ellen and Casey Lopata, the Catholic parents of a same-sex attracted man, is a group of Catholic religious and laypeople who dissent on authentic Church teaching regarding sexuality and marriage. From 2010 until this July Fortunate Families was part of a coalition with Call to Action, the banned Dignity, and the censured New Ways ministry.
Astonishingly, since November 2017 Bishop John Stowe, OFM of Lexington has served as the dissident group’s “ecclesial advisor”. Stowe is one of the five bishops who have endorsed Fr. James Martin’s pro-LGBT book Building a Bridge. The bishop was appointed to the Lexington diocese by Pope Francis in 2015.
Fortunate Families was last in the news when a Lexington Catholic church stretched an LGBT flag across its front lawn. The first executive director of the group, Stan “JR” Zerkowski, is a parishioner at St. Paul’s parish, and told media that he hoped the banner got wide publicity.
“This is a church that is open to all people and I hope this sign gets that across,” he said in the TV report. “I don’t think a Catholic Church has ever had a sign like this before in front of it during Pride Week or any other time. However, in other parts of the country we see this regularly.”
The banner read “LBGTQ+ Catholic /Family, Friends & Allies/all are welcome”, insinuating that at other Catholic churches Catholics who experience same-sex desires or suffer from gender dysphoria are barred from the worship of God.
Former homosexual Joseph Sciambra retweeted the group’s Twitter message, saying “Bishop Stowe’s ‘Fortunate Families’ believe that the [Catechism of the Catholic Church] will also ‘change’ in terms of homosexuality. FF operatives are embedded within several dioceses around the US.”
Sciambra, a survivor of the San Francisco 1990s “gay scene”, is dedicated to helping people with same-sex attractions avoid being trapped in what he says is a dangerous way of life.
As have I.
Maybe they need their Magisterium to interpret the rules for them? ;o)
You know nothing.
Seems that interpreting things is a challenge for some in certain groups.
You were leaving.
You said “Good afternoon” so I said bye bye to you.
I thought you bowed out.
I see you were wrong.
LOL....that's good.
The thread soon devolved into catholic bashing starting with post #27.
I’m not sure that that was not the intention of the original poster.
You’ve got it backwards. See your post #253.
Complains the guy who accused the OP of *malicious* posting.
How leftist of you.
Criticism of Catholicism is *bashing* and yet you, A) criticize non-Catholics, and B) Criticize your own pope.
Don't you get tired of bashing your pope?
Don’t you get tired of reading catholic threads?
Why do you care? You left the Catholic Church before he was even elected.
Don't suddenly claim to be defending Bergoglio.
Actually, the original bashing was on your part with your initial post of the topic at hand.
That's all you've been doing, ebb....bashing your own denomination. You are the foremost basher of Roman Catholicism on the entire board.
The hypocrisy of you accusing others of Roman Catholic bashing is there for all to see...except for you.
As I said before....you don't play this game very well.
Your hatred of your pope has blinded you to what you're doing....in violation of your own canon law.
Your disrespect for the Religion Forum is duly noted
Fibbing is lying
Accusations of lying are not allowed
I told the truth.
Many Christians check the Religion Forum comments regularly
When we see something interesting or completely unhinged we may chose to make replies
We feel it is important to spread the gospel message and expose false doctrine and correct posters who are posting false information so the truth can be expressed
It’s the Christian thing to do.
You’re welcome
“Unlearner has been a member of FR for over 13 years. I don’t buy the “ignorance” plea.”
Ebb,
Let me explain my experience with Caucus threads:
I have almost none. Do you know why?
Protestants are very diverse on a lot of minuscule issues even if we agree on major ones. But a “Protestant Caucus” is dissimilar to a “Catholic Caucus” precisely because there is not an exact set of beliefs that everyone shares on many issues.
This website is essentially a Conservative Caucus. Sure, there are a few libertarians who participate, but if they start promoting non-conservative views, they’ll likely get booted sooner or later.
Most of what Protestants might want to share is generally going to be for everyone. We simply accept that there will be disagreements as well as agreement on some things.
We also use ping lists. That way when I want to keep up with Bill Randle’s latest sermon, I can. He’s Pentecostal. I’m not. But we agree on major doctrines that matter. And if someone posts negative comments on his threads, well, we just answer them.
I appreciate the value and benefit of Caucus threads, but I’ve rarely ever opened one. And even more rare are my posts in them. I think years ago I had a post deleted on one because I did not even realize what “Caucus” meant in the context of this forum. I thought it had something to do with election primaries. That’s how I learned they were for designated groups.
But when I posted to yours I was thinking that the point was simply to not debate issues that were already settled for that group. I thought it would actually be a good place to go to get answers on what Catholics thought about the issue. This thread contains a little of the answers I was seeking, but it ended up mostly being a Catholic / Protestant debate.
If I knew at one time that non-members were expressly forbidden except for the rare exception of “by invitation only” then I must have forgotten that. After you let me know I was intruding, I went looking for the policy and could not find it. That’s why I inquired.
I apologize again for intruding. I have done my best to stay out of the Catholic / Protestant debate on this thread. I see that you have a good reason for anticipating such discussions leading to name-calling.
I would like to try making a “Christian Caucus” thread in which Protestants and Catholics can discuss the ramifications of issues like this within the context of the things we agree on. I’m not sure it would work but it might be worth a try.
I respect your right to have more private and personal discussions with those who share your beliefs. I feel like I interrupted a church service or funeral by walking in where I did not belong, and I’ll do my best to remember not to do it again.
With 13 years of participating on this forum I should have known, as you pointed out. There are a few other similar things I still never figured out, like who determines the sidebar and where to find the rules for various things like Caucus participation.
You don’t know anything either.
Now to get back on subject.
The question being “If Pope can reverse ...teaching on death penalty, why not homosex?”
Well of course he can.
He is the head of the Catholic church and can change anything he wants to.
He is Catholicism’s Vicar of Christ.
Which seems to mean he speaks for God.
So he is free to allow homosexual sex.
Nothing new there, it’s been allowed to take place by Catholics for decades.
Even with priests engaged in it.
And it’s been expressed that a priest who practices homosexuality can still present the Eucharist to his subjects
WE’LL forgive you.
This isn’t a catholic (not capitalized as you posted it) thread, it is an open discussion thread.
Actually it’s pretty important news, maybe it should have been posted in the news forum.
But then maybe it is a catholic thread.
Catholic means universal.
How many ways can you call someone a liar.
Let me count the ways.
The only thing he could be accused of is not being perfect, but then again, even that's not going to be good enough for some Catholics.
Because being right isn't the issue. Agreeing with them is.
Here, you need to read the post to which you replied:
“You were leaving.
“You said “Good afternoon” so I said bye bye to you.
“I thought you bowed out.
“I see you were wrong.”
You said: You’ve got it backwards
Please stop making personal mindreading comments to me.
It’s not allowed in the RF.
Thank you
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