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To: ravenwolf
Which as a characteristic is because it is such who are true believers, I have no argument with what you said or quoted, but the parable of the sheep and goats makes it a little clearer to me and it was clear to James which is why he said faith with with out works is dead.

Faith with with out works is dead, and which what Reformers as Luther formally clearly taught as sola fide, versus the Catholic strawman of it.

But if James (who only mentions Christ twice, and never His death and resurrection) was teaching that the merit of works justifies one before God then he is contradicting both Moses and Paul. And if Abraham was first accounted righteous in the offering of Issac (Gn. 22) then he was not saved until then, versus such acts justifying/vindicating him as being a believer, fulling what Gn. 15:6 declares (And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness, like as a fulfilled prophecy justifies the prophet as being one.

Likewise the Lord's teaching on the sheep and goats does not mean the sheep enter into eternal life because their works actually obtained this, which would be as salvation under the Law, but because such works testify to them being true believers of saving faith. By which evidence they are accounted/judged fit to be rewarded, it being fitting that they are under grace, (Rv. 3:4) even though it is only because God motivated and enabled them to do so. God .

To believe is to obey, (Rm. 8:13,14) and obedience by the Spirit means one believes. (Heb. 6:9,10) Likewise in Mark 2, to be forgiven was to be healed, and thus they Lord could use the words interchangeably in that case ( Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?, (Mark 2:9) since the former effected the latter,

Similarly, because true believers obey the Lord, their object of faith (which includes penitent confession when convicted of not doing so), then such are promised salvation,(Mark 16:16) just as it is to those who believe. (Jn. 3:36) The meek shall inherit the earth, not actually because they are meek, but because such characterizes true believers.

Catholics attempt to basically teach salvation as under the Law, in which one is actually justified and made worthy to enter Heaven on the level of his performance in heat and deed (even invoking, "be perfect even as your Heavenly father is perfect"), and attempt to justify this was attributing this attainment to grace, via the sacraments and Purgatory.

And they dismissing the exclusion of salvation by works such as Romans 4 taught by asserting this only applies to the Law, and or as done outside Christ. However, a Jew under the Law could also maintain they he was obeying God by grace, enough to be saved. And the Law is used to condemn all systems of salvation by works since it represents the epitome of such systems, and Galatians 3:21-22 states,

"if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. " (Galatians 3:21-22)

Thus the effect of heart-purifying justifying faith is not be to confused with the actual means of obtaining it. For the clear teaching of Scripture is that man does not obtain eternal life because they actually earned it, or became actually good enough in character to enters Heaven thru Purgatory, as per Rome's false gospel, but faith is counted for righteousness, and they are accepted in the Beloved in Christ's account, and made to positionally sit together with Him in Heaven, (Eph. 1:6; 2:6) from where they look forward to the 2nd coming of the Lord, and the only transformative change believers are promised after this life. (Phil. 3:20,21) (At which time is the only suffering after this life .)

Thus the typical exhortation is to be practically what one is positionally, such as

"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:" (Colossians 3:1-5)

Many people will brag that they are saved by faith and not works and have taken out the word Grace so they are crediting them selves with faith, it is still me, me ,me. By the way some people talk it would appear to new believers that they actually have a license to sin. Jesus said the only ones who would enter heaven are the ones who does his will, sin is the transgression of the law or Gods will. So any one bragging that they can sin all they want and still be saved are really saying that Jesus did not know what he was talking about.

True, as is the case of those who presume that because they do good works then they are saved because of them, that one is justified by the good works that he performs by the grace of God and merits the attainment of eternal life, as Trent (Canon 32) can be understood as teaching, versus accounted fit to be rewarded in the light of his effectual faith, as explained above.

However, the practically unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God, (1 Corinthians 6:9; Galatians 5:21) this being contrary to saving faith, (cf. 1Tim. 5:8) nor will flesh and blood as meaning the sinful nature though believers are presently spiritually seated with Christ. But the believer will become practically what he is positionally (which they are to strive to become in this life), at the resurrection, and they of overcoming faith will actually sit with Him. (Revelation 3:21)

(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. (Philippians 3:18-21)

To God be the glory.

268 posted on 08/02/2018 6:24:31 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: daniel1212

But if James (who only mentions Christ twice, and never His death and resurrection) was teaching that the merit of works justifies one before God then he is contradicting both Moses and Paul


I do not see James as saying that the merit of works justifies any one before God, he was simply saying that if a person really had faith it would be shown in his works.

Jesus told us what our works should be in the parable of the sheep and goats, and also the good Samaritan, and that is what James said.

Again, Abraham was not counted as righteous because he said he had faith, he was righteous because her was willing to do what God told him to do.

Noah was not saved because he said i believe you Lord, he was saved because he did the works God told him to do, he built the ark.

“”
Likewise the Lord’s teaching on the sheep and goats does not mean the sheep enter into eternal life because their works actually obtained this, which would be as salvation under the Law,””

Probably true but the point is that the sheep who did the works went to heaven and the goats who did not the works went to hell.

I have to believe believers are saved by grace because if i have to depend on my works i am hell bound.

But it seems today that if a preacher trys to make the young girls understand that they should not take their pants down for any creep that comes along they are accused of preaching salvation by works which in most cases is nothing but a lie.

I learned all about being a tramp long before i ever listened to a preacher, we do not need preachers to tell us it is alright to sin, we can do that on our own.


286 posted on 08/02/2018 10:35:33 AM PDT by ravenwolf (Left lane drivers and tailgaters have the smallest brains in the world.)
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