Posted on 06/01/2018 10:14:15 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
First of all, it was done at the wrong time. Dr. Patterson was close to retirement age. They should have waited and allowed him to retire honourably and properly.
Second, it was done to the wrong person. He did nothing worthy of being fired. No biblical grounds were given, let alone, seriously considered. There are numerous Christian leaders who have committed sins worthy of discipline. Patterson is not one of them; he hasn't committed any such sins. On the contrary, he has done many things worthy of exaltation. In fact, he is one of the top conservative Christian leaders of our day. Indeed, I have long contended that a bronze statue should be erected in his honour in Nashville. I still do.
Third, it was done the wrong way. It was done too quickly—within hours. This did not give proper time for reflection, interaction, and thoughtful action.
Fourth, it was done on the wrong grounds. The vote was a mere majority of the Trustees present. For a significant event like this it should have been at least a two-thirds or more majority vote.
Fifth, it was done in the wrong spirit. Many who opposed Dr. Patterson were apparently caught up in winds of the #MeToo movement of the day. But no doctrinal or moral charges were even offered, let alone proven by two or more credible witnesses against him. Rather, personal opinions about isolated cases were offered
Sixth, it was done without proper forethought. Patterson is one of the great evangelical leaders of our day. His departure in this manner will send a strong and wrong signal, namely, one of encouragement to the less-conservative movement in the country.
While only Jesus has an impeccable record, Patterson has one that is highly commendable. The Southern Baptist Trustees have made a tragic and influential mistake.
-- Norman Geisler (Ph.D., Loyola University) has taught theology, Christian apologetics, and ethics on the graduate level for over fifty years. He is the Chancellor and the Distinguished Professor of Apologetics and Theology at Veritas International University in Santa Ana, California. He is also the Distinguished Senior Professor of Theology and Apologetics at Southern Evangelical Seminary in Charlotte, North Carolina. He has written on the ethical considerations of marriage and divorce in Christian Ethics: Contemporary Issues & Options, Second Edition (Baker Academic, 2010).
That’s completely vague. Why was he fired?
Several reasons:
1. In a 2000 interview Patterson recounted how he counseled a woman who had been beaten by her husband to stay with him, submit to him, and pray for him. When the woman returned to church with two black eyes, Patterson rejoiced because the husband had also come to church, out of guilt.
Patterson explains a wife’s submission to her husband as voluntary rather than coerced: ““It means voluntarily to line up in the right order that God has given, and the husband is loving his wife sacrificially as much as Jesus Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it, so that all the husband can think of is, ‘Honey, what can I do for you? What can I do to serve you? How can I make your life better?’ And all the time she is submitting herself to her husband and saying, ‘You just lead and, honey, I’ll follow.’”
He has encouraged abused women to pray and “be submissive in every way that you can.”
He says, “It depends on the level of abuse, to some degree. … I have never in my ministry counseled anyone to seek a divorce and that’s always wrong counsel.”
Instead of divorce he recommended temporary separation in cases of extreme spousal abuse.
He has also compared female submissiveness to submissiveness to a police officer. Although the officer and Patterson would be equal before God, “He is above me,” Patterson said. “God gave him an assignment that affects me and made him a minister of God to correct my evil ways.” so should a woman submit.
The above teachings DID NOT SIT WELL WITH MANY SOUTHERN BAPTISTS.
2. Patterson is a defendant in a 2018 suit which alleged he assisted in covering up sexual abuse by fellow Southern Baptist Paul Pressler
Probably the same batch or like-minded who allow Beth Moore to promote herself, her wares, and programs on Life Way (publishing division of the Southern Baptist Convention and church business services).
I agree. Why was he fired?
According to Christianity Today, “mishandled sexual abuse allegation”
Eighteen years ago when such subjects were openly discussed, Patterson said if his advice had been considered to spouses in such cases be hurtful, he offered an apology!
Not politically “sensitive” in today’s environment of “me too “ so he’s banished for “insensitive comments.”
If I recall rightly an article I read said Patterson had counseled a woman to not divorce her husband because of abuse. Supposedly, he also urged a student on his campus to not report an alleged rape but this incident was some years ago.
Geisler’s defense of Patterson presents additional facts that I don’t recall reading in the original article.
I can understand Patterson’s thinking somewhat in the first instance but not in the second instance. No other details were provided to help a reader to come to a better understanding.
He says, “It depends on the level of abuse, to some degree
_________________
The Convention needs to have mandatory counseling for all pastors in order for the church to remain in the SBC.
Sometimes a woman needs to leave an abusive environment for her own protection and the protection of the children.
The answer to the wife of *Go back and submit to him and pray for him* is wrong.
When a woman exposes an abusive situation like that, the church should not be addressing the woman but the MAN.
It’s often and usually the MEN who need to hear the message about how Christ loves the church. The women know it already. And any woman who is being abused knows that Jesus does not beat His bride black and blue.
I suggest number two is a biggie
Sorry number one is his erroneous reading of whatever version of the Bible he uses
See post number 6
See post 6
If he urged someone to not report a rape, he was wrong. Period.
Telling someone to go back to an abusive husband is bad judgment. It could get the woman or child killed.
Telling someone to pray for their attacker and to forgive him...is tough advice, but sound. Not sure I could ever forgive someone for that, but it is a worthy goal.
I don’t want to be hard on the old guy. Standards were different 50 years ago and each succeeding decade saw only incremental change. Ex post facto censoring for actions under a different set of rules is what they were trying to get CIA’s Gina Haspel on.
Just watch old Mash episodes.
It wasn’t that long ago.
EDIT TO ADD:
The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary Executive Committee Stated:
New information confirmed this morning was presented regarding the handling of an allegation of sexual abuse against a student during Dr. Paige Patterson’s presidency at another institution and resulting issues connected with statements to the Board of Trustees that are inconsistent with SWBTS’s biblically informed core values.
Patterson was terminated “effective immediately” in response to mishandling the rape investigation of a student at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in 2003, based on their internal review reported to SWBTS.
Southwestern removed “all the benefits, rights and privileges provided by the May 22-23 board meeting, including the title of President Emeritus, the invitation to reside at the Baptist Heritage Center as theologian-in-residence and ongoing compensation.”
As both Patterson and his wife were named theologians-in-residence in the May 23 statement, it remains unclear as to Mrs. Patterson’s relationship to the seminary.
Such hide bound heartlessness is symptomatic of malicious influences in the Baptist convention and an accursed self righteousness that is expressed in the most ignorant, un-Biblical bastions of fundamentalism.
VERY interesting ride, learned a lot about Luther and the Reformation.
Patterson is extremely intelligent and was a leader in the movement to turn Southern Baptist away from the rot of theological liberalism.
I don’t care what my pastor would recommend. If my husband ever touched me I’d leave him in a skinny minute.
South Western Bible Theological Seminary.
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