The humiliation of the Southern Baptist convention

Christianity Today ^ | 22 May 2018 | Al Mohler

[Cronos]

Evangelicals, we can no longer say sexual misconduct is just a Roman Catholic problem. At one of our seminaries, controversy has centered on a president (now former president) whose sermon illustration from years ago included advice that a battered wife remain in the home and the marriage in hope of the conversion of her abusive husband. Other comments represented the objectification of a teenage girl. The issues only grew more urgent with the sense that the dated statements represented ongoing advice and counsel.

..We thought this was a Roman Catholic problem.

..

When people said that evangelicals had a similar crisis coming, it didn’t seem plausible—even to me. I have been president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary for 25 years. I did not see this coming.

..We cannot blame a requirement of priestly celibacy. We cannot even point to an organized conspiracy of silence within the denominational hierarchy. No, our humiliation comes as a result of an unorganized conspiracy of silence. Sadly, the unorganized nature of our problem may make recovery and correction even more difficult and the silence even more dangerous.

...This is just a foretaste of the wrath of God poured out. This moment requires the very best of us. The Southern Baptist Convention is on trial, and our public credibility is at stake. May God have mercy on us all.

[Cronos]

The dictionary definition of evangelical is belonging to or designating the Christian churches that emphasize the teachings and authority of the Scriptures, especially of the New Testament, in opposition to the institutional authority of the church itself, and that stress as paramount the tenet that salvation is achieved by personal conversion to faith in the atonement of Christ.

By this definition, you can't reject the Oneness Pentecostals right to be called evangelicals

[kosciusko51]

That is not true. I know of groups that are evangelical and maintain the Nicene creed. Furthmore, the SBC, which is the focus of this article, is cleary Trinitarian.

[Cronos]

What do pentecostals believe

Some such “classical Pentecostals,” however, do not believe in the Trinity; they are known as “Oneness Pentecostals” or “Jesus Only” Pentecostals. Their largest organization in the U.S. is the United Pentecostal Church, but most of their congregations use the word “Apostolic.”

or you can Read what the United Pentecostal Church says of itself.

Since there is no central doctrinal statement besides "Bible literally" and "by grace alone" - then the Oneness ARE Evangelicals.

[bmwcyle]

The church is dead and God will judge them first.

[kosciusko51]

Look at definition 3. Frankly, I don’t consider anti-trinitarians as Christians, despite any loose definition that might confer that title to them.

[Cronos]

#1. I have no doubt some evangelical groups hold to the Nicene creed. But the reverse is not true that if a group does not hold to the Nicene creed it is not Evangelical. This is not similar to the case with the Assyrian Church, the Copts, Ethiopian, Catholic, Eastern Orthodox or Syriac churches - these all state that the beliefs encapsulated in the Nicene creed are what defines Christians.

#2 Going on the above, do the groups you list hold to the beliefs in the Nicene creed (meaning saying "if you don't believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead (say), then you aren't in our definition evangelical"? I doubt that they do (though could be wrong).

#3 you are correct, the Southern Baptist are clearly those who believe in a Triune godhead, unlike the Pentecostals listed above

[MayflowerMadam]

Evangelicals don’t “do” creeds.

And the SBC is getting weird again. They go through phases. We attended an SBC church for a few years but left for an independent Baptist church. A big convention is too organized; individual churches and members have less “say” in what’s going on.

[Cronos]

Definition #3 "designating Christians, especially of the late 1970s, eschewing the designation of fundamentalist but holding to a conservative interpretation of the Bible. "

Well it does say "of the 1970s", but if they hold to a conservative interpretation of the Bible then they should hold on to the conservative interpretation from the 9th century, right? :) Orthodoxy is ultra-conservative!

There is no real definition of evangelical except "Bible only" and "grace only" - and no definining authority. Since the Pentecostals say that the Bible doesn't use the word Trinity, then they are "bible only" and they are also "grace only". So you can't offhand reject them from the evangelical definition

[ealgeone]

From the article:

Patterson rose to prominence in the 1970s while leading a conservative takeover of the Baptist Convention. He helped pass resolutions banning women as pastors and taught that women should be submissive to their husbands.

I'm not defending Patterson's comments as I don't know what they were....but I suspect his above position on banning women pastors and wives submitting to their husbands has a lot to do with this.

One of the goals of the Left is to get women into the pastor role. The SBC is one of the few remaining denominations to hold the Biblical line on this issue.

[kosciusko51]

Cronos, I think the basic problem is the label evangelical. You have a very broad definition, which is not the definition Al Mohler would use, since he is also a Trinitarian.

[Cronos]

you are correct MayflowerMadam, Evangelicals don't "do" creeds.

Well, the good news is, as you said, they go through phases -- the only way forward is up. God speed!

[Cronos]

The thing is that the label evangelical is so broad and has so many groups with completely different beliefs that we either use the broad label or we don't use any label at all and respect the fact that Southern Baptists have completely different beliefs from Assemblies of God.

I prefer the specific term rather than umbrella term in most cases -- for the same reason I don't use the term Protestants as that is even broader and it is not fair to club Baptists with Mennonites say...

[DoodleDawg]

But it would be odd if Roman Catholics are arguing to divorce as a first reaction.

Two questions: one, what Roman Catholic is arguing for that, and two, why would it be odd if they did?

[Cronos]

One of the goals of the Left is to get women into the pastor role

What about female pastors like Paula White or Joyce Meyers? They seem conservative enough I guess

[ealgeone]

No For one, they are not following the biblical injunction against women pastors. Two, they preach the false health and wealth theology.

[DoodleDawg]

(though at least intervention is called for in such a case).

Or not, which is why he found himself in this mess.

[Campion]

And denial of divorce to battered women is somehow different in Rome?

Thanks for playing! Nobody is "denied divorce" "in Rome," in particular not abused spouses. What they are denied is divorce and remarriage, and they are denied that by the direct words of Our Lord in the Gospels.

[Cronos]

i don’t think its relevant. What is relevant TO ME is that Mohler see’s the issue and is working on it before the media blows it up. Good on him!

[kosciusko51]

Fine, but my original point is that the JWs are not evangelical, since they don’t meet any of the broad definitions you have presented.

[T-Bone Texan]

I read last week that the term “evangelical” was a term invented in the 50s or 60s to somehow pigeonhole, divide, and separate Christians. Before that time no one ever used the term, and most Christians never even mulled the concept.

The term was invented by leftists who hated Christianity.

Sorta like how the term “Capitalism” was invented by Marx when there was already a valid descriptor known as “the free market”.