Posted on 05/23/2018 2:50:24 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
Says who?
Nothing has changed since then!!!
--Catholic_Wannabe_Dude(Hail Mary)
Simple doesn’t mean correct.
In 1 Corinthians, Paul says that to take unworthily of the Lord’s Supper is to sin against the body and blood of the Lord.
I’m gonna take that like it was written, just like I take Ephesians 2 like it was written.
The Bible.
as written?
really?
Perhaps you can explain what UNWORTHY means to me.
Should I start at the top, middle or bottom of the haystack you’ve tossed me?
Perhaps you can explain what UNWORTHY means to me.
***
Unrepentance.
But even if you can argue that, I don’t see how that changes the fact that Paul refers to the action as such: “So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.”
I have no idea what you mean by that.
The Lutheran understanding is that it’s all of the above. Bread and body. Wine and blood.
You apparently think something else, but I really don’t understand what you’re trying to get at.
Explain?
I seem to be frustrating you.
“23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, This is my body, which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me. 25 In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord.”
That’s a direct quote from what Paul wrote to the Corinthians. Considering that Paul was trying to make sure that his letter was understood by anyone who read it, I cannot see any other explanation other than that he meant what he said and said what he meant.
And so I have to believe it.
1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
Excuse me?
Are you so angry that I’m believing the plain words of the Apostle that you’re calling me ignorant and unstable?
If anything, I’m doing the opposite of distorting by believing it as written.
Are you going to say that reading Ephesians 2 as it was written is also the result of the reader being ignorant and unstable?
Seriously, after all the time that we spend schooling the Catholics because they insist that the Bible doesn’t mean what it actually says about salvation, are we getting to the point where WE’RE going to ignore the plain words of Scripture because it goes against OUR theology?
Or does Scripture come first?
Might as well jump in, I guess. Not to argue, but to explore. Can I assume that you know that Jesus used two different words, when He was speaking to Peter about building His Church? Peter, he call Petros (a piece of rock). Then He said, “On this Petra (a mass of rock) I will build of Me, a Church. Because he used two different words, most of the protestant church believes He was referring to Himself, when He said the above. (Those words, “of me”, are in the original Greek text.) Why would he use two different words? I’m not familiar with how RC’s believe, but we refer to Jesus, as the Rock of our salvation: “The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.” Psalms 18:2 (In that versa, the Hebrew word for rock, means, “to be lofty; a craggy rock, literally; figuratively, a fortress, stronghold). My only other thought, is the relationship between Peter and Paul. As you know, Paul wrote a good portion of the New Testament. I recall at one point, Paul rebuked Peter, in front of the Church that was meeting together, there, because Peter tried to go along with the Jewish believers who still clung to traditions, and he would not eat with gentile Christians, when Jewish Christians were present. In Scripture, Paul says, “I withstood him (Peter) to his face...” Galatians 2:11-14. That passage of Scripture has always been very interesting to me. In fact, Paul decided (under the influence of the Holy Spirit, I’m sure) he would preach to the gentiles, and Peter would preach to the Jews. (Not for the above reasons, but because the Jews heavily persecuted him, and tried to kill him, several times. (Personally, I believe it is because Paul had been a learned Jew, of the Pharisee sect, before his conversion, and they knew that he was an expert regarding the Scriptures, so that he was very dangerous to their beliefs).
And the words are NOT 'plain'.
Are you going to say...
I'M not saying anything.
Peter wrong that SOME have a hard time with things Paul has written.
If anything, the way we each are determining what Paul REALLY meant when he penned the 'unworthy' verse, shows the reality of what Peter wrote.
Which of us is the 'ignorant and unstable' one?
the coin could flip either way.
(Or land on edge)
Millions of folks think the elements are merely reminders of what Jesus has done for us, while other millions think that somehow they turn into His 'body' and 'blood' when consumed.
I doubt that no matter what EITHER of us 'through the glass darkly' fellas writes here is going to sway the other one; seeing that CENTURIES of discussion about the subject has still left the human race divided.
I'm willing to put this into the 'disputable matters' bin and move on.
How 'bout you?
I’m willing to put this into the ‘disputable matters’ bin and move on.
How ‘bout you?
***
Sure.
Good!
We’ve a lot of many other things that we DO agree on.
Weve a lot of many other things that we DO agree on.
***
Yes, and none of what we disagree on affects justification or salvation, thankfully.
I’ve seen that.
Many many Romanists on these threads are SO guilty of that too. Not just on Scripture, but on slandering non-Romanists.
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