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Salvation and Church
OSV.com ^
| 03-14-18
| Msgr. Charles Pope
Posted on 04/21/2018 9:30:28 AM PDT by Salvation
Salvation and Church The teaching of no salvation outside the Church is important and one that must rightly be understood
Msgr. Charles Pope
3/14/2018
Question: I hear the Catholic Church teaches there is no salvation outside the Church. This would seem to condemn most to hell. Or am I missing something? — Name, location withheld
Answer: It is in fact a doctrine of the Church often repeated by the Fathers of the Church and taught formally. However, it must be understood properly.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church has this to say by way of explanation:
“‘Outside the Church there is no Salvation.’ ... Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church ... is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence, they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church” (CCC, Nos. 846-847).
This much is sure: Whoever is in heaven was saved by Jesus Christ in and through his Body the Church. But, as we know, there are many barriers to people fully understanding that the Church is the sole and necessary means for salvation, and thus, simply being outside the Church usually does not alone bring condemnation.
God can and, it would seem, does draw others unto himself in ways not always known to us. All of this can console us and bring an understanding that the teaching “outside the Church there is no salvation” is not understood absolutely.
But this consolation must not be the source of letting our missionary zeal wane. While it is possible to be saved beyond the Church, sacraments and explicit faith in Christ, it is much more difficult. Consider the following teaching from the Second Vatican Council:
“Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. ... But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator (cf. Rom 1:21, 25). Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, ‘Preach the Gospel to every creature’ (Mk 16:16), the Church fosters the missions with care and attention” (Lumen Gentium, No. 16).
And therefore, we see that people often are deceived or let themselves be deceived. So, the fact that people can be saved apart from the Church is not a blank check or presumption that they likely will be saved. It must always be our earnest work to evangelize, for many “prefer the darkness” (see Jn 3:19).
TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; salvation; tickytackytrolls
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To: Concentrate
Do you believe and have been baptized? That’s it. It is a gift. If there is something more you should do then you’re ignoring Christ’s death on the cross. He did it for you.
To: Salvation
I am saved by my Baptism
Oh? So you are saying you *know* right now that you will go to heaven?
That is what it means to be saved. Rome does not teach that.
Now, I dearly wish heaven for you, but the act of getting wet doesnt save anyone.
So do you know you are saved and will spend eternity in heaven?
To: Salvation; All
Enough of the tickytackytrolling please!
83
posted on
04/21/2018 3:40:43 PM PDT
by
Biggirl
("One Lord, one faith, one baptism" - Ephesians 4:5)
To: Bulwyf
Also Jesus calls us to LOVE God and neighbor.
84
posted on
04/21/2018 3:53:50 PM PDT
by
Biggirl
("One Lord, one faith, one baptism" - Ephesians 4:5)
To: Bob434; aMorePerfectUnion
The horrors of hell are no joking matter- I simply cant understand people making the choice to spend eternity there- I cant either bro, except to say, all of us were on that broad road that leads to Hell, until Jesus miraculously saved us.
Based on my own experience, I think that people are so totally, and completely spiritually dead, that they are spiritually blind to their spiritually dead selves. They dont even realize or know they are choosing Hell over Heaven, but they fall like snowflakes into Hell, every moment of every day. They dont realize they have chosen Hell over Heaven, till they wake up in the flames.
What a tragic mistaken choice they made, that will haunt them FOREVER. Just making a total, wild guess, and it IS just a wild guess, I would guesstimate that maybe 5% make it to Heaven, and maybe 95% go to Hell. The place will be very crowded. My advice to everyone, would be, dont go there. 😁🔥
85
posted on
04/21/2018 5:06:31 PM PDT
by
Mark17
(Genesis chapter 1 verse 1. In the beginning GOD....And the rest, as they say, is HIS-story)
To: nobamanomore
Hey look who showed up....potty mouth! And offering about as much useful insight as you always do....which is to say: NONE.
86
posted on
04/21/2018 5:08:43 PM PDT
by
ealgeone
To: Steelfish
Christ established ONE truth and established ONE Church to convey His teachings. Those who obstinately refuse to accept Catholic teachings cannot hope for salvation. IF you mean catholic as in universal yes....if you mean catholic as Roman Catholic then no.
87
posted on
04/21/2018 5:10:11 PM PDT
by
ealgeone
To: Salvation; Bob434
However, the Catholic Church believes that the Good Thief exhibited a Baptism of Desire as well as a Baptism of Blood.However, there is no New Testament support for the Roman Catholic claim of "baptism of desire."
Baptism is not what saves you. Belief in Christ is what saves a person. Baptism is the outward confirmation of what has happened in a person.
If not, Cornelius was not saved nor was the thief on the cross or the woman at the well nor a whole host of people.
88
posted on
04/21/2018 5:13:06 PM PDT
by
ealgeone
Comment #89 Removed by Moderator
To: Salvation; aMorePerfectUnion
From the Last Supper Christ says to the Apostles, Do this in remembrance of me. Yes...we do this to remember His sacrifice on the Cross. It is not bringing Christ down from Heaven over and over again to be placed on the altar as the victim thousands of times as Rome claims.
90
posted on
04/21/2018 5:14:58 PM PDT
by
ealgeone
To: tjd1454
Not a Catholic here, but with a Ph.d in Theology from a Jesuit University and with profound respect for the Catholic Church. Also, I attend a Catholic Church. My 2 cents is that all those who confess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior will be saved, regardless of denomination. Many of these have unfortunately been taught false preconceptions about the RCC through no fault of their own, and harbor no innate hostility towards the Church. Theirs is a situation of ignorance, yet in their hearts they feel unity with all those who have true faith in Christ. This is something which I feel Catholics would do well to understand. IMHO the Universal Church transcends any particular denomination.You are a Roman Catholic in everything but officially joining the church by your own admission in other posts.
Why do you persist with this false representation of yourself??
Or do I have to post the threads where you admit this?
91
posted on
04/21/2018 5:16:44 PM PDT
by
ealgeone
To: Mark17
Sachi felt that as bad as the suffering she had endured was, what Kayaba had done to the others was even worse.
She started to feel angry inside. She muttered, “If anyone deserves to go to Hell, he does...”
Kikuoka chuckled, “Actually, we all do.”
“We do?”
He started to loosen his tie and sat back. “Yes. None of us belong in Heaven. Not even a sweet girl like you.”
“Oh. But why not?”
Kikuoka finished removing his tie, then he put his hands behind his head and looked up.
“Because we don’t rate, none of us. We all screw up and fall short. Even Moses messed up near the end of his life, which is why he was not allowed to enter the Promised Land.”
“But sir, I can understand why bad people like Hitler might go to Hell, but why would everyone..”
He interrupted her. “Oh, Hitler is not there.”
“He’s not?”
“No. Nobody is.”
“I don’t understand.”
“It’s because it hasn’t happened yet.”
“What hasn’t?”
“The event that drops us all in there, in Hell. Well, the ones left behind anyway.”
“What event?”
He smiled again. “Ah, now that’s a good question. The Bible is kind of vague about how it is going to happen.”
Sachi leaned forward. “Please sir, I want to know.”
Kikuoka relaxed and put his feet on his desk. “Well, it requires knowledge of Greek and gets technical, so for now let’s just step back a moment. The first thing to understand is that Jesus liked to use very strong language when talking about God, very vivid imagery. He’d say things like “Why do you pay no attention to the plank in your eye?”* and “You blind guides! You strain out a gnat, but swallow a camel!”** He did the same thing when talking about Hell: “If your eye makes you stumble, pluck it out” or else be “thrown into Hell [Gehenna], the unquenchable fire.”*** That’s strong stuff.
“But He also chose his words very carefully. You see, back then everybody in Jerusalem knew what that Gehenna (Hebrew: Gehinnom) meant. It was a real place, a garbage dump that was right outside of town. It was a large depression just outside the city walls where where the people tossed their out their trash, and it fell and accumulated in the valley below. For hundreds of years all that garbage accumulated in thick layers of decaying organic matter that decomposed into methane gas. From the wall of Jerusalem you could look down and literally see all these little fires burning all over that valley, and those fires really were unquenchable. You can still see those fires today at big municipal garbage dumps, where pipes are stuck into the ground to burn off the methane gas.
“So, you are saying that Hell is like a garbage dump?”
“That’s His metaphor, not mine. You see, it’s the default place where everything ends up. God’s junk pile. It’s separation, isolation. I think that Jesus is using really strong language to literally put the fear of God in you. He is warning you that you really, really, really do not want to end up in that garbage pile.”
“But where is it? And why aren’t we there yet?”
“Oh, we’re there all right. Right now. You and me. Everybody.”
“Now I am really confused...”
“Sorry. You see, I think we’re standing on it. The Bible says that Jesus comes back, and a bunch of bad things happen, then finally the Earth gets destroyed.*4 We don’t know how exactly, but in my opinion the easiest way is with an asteroid - and not a particularly big one - a rock only 120 miles wide is enough to boil the seas*5 and melt the Earth’s crust entirely away*6.”
“And then we all fall in? Plop, just like that?”
“That’s just my hunch, based on the original text - you would have to dig into the Greek translation of ‘cast’ versus ‘drop’ among other things - but the point is that it’s inevitable. All we need to do is to simply sit on our collective butts and do nothing. Sooner or later, whether you are alive or in your grave, eventually all that exists in this sad world, you, me, and everything else that remains on Earth will fall in to that burning cauldron of unquenchable magma.”
“It sounds so depressing..”
He made a small smile. “Well, I could go on to explain thermodynamic entropy and how it will eventually make the whole universe run down, and really depress you, but I won’t. Look, just don’t get hung up about it. The key thing to remember is that God loves us and wants a relationship with us.”
She looked down. “If He does, I don’t feel it.”
He put his hand on her shoulder. “It’s hard for you. I understand.”
* Mt 7:3, Lk 6:41
** Mt 23:24
*** Mk 9:47-48
*4 Mt 24:35, Mk 13:31, Lk 21:33
*5 Rev 21:1
92
posted on
04/21/2018 5:17:43 PM PDT
by
Gideon7
To: Steelfish
You do realize error was already in the early church? Right?
The writings of the ECFs Roman Catholics cling to so desperately to justify their false doctrines were never made a part of the canon at Trent when Roman formally proclaimed their canon.
You are aware the ECFs contradict not only themselves but the New Testament....right?
And the tens of thousands of historians, Protestant theologians, atheists, and and scientists from all other faiths from ordinary workpeople to Kings and Queens who converted to Catholicism all got it wrong.
Yep.
There are 1 billion Hindus, some 800 million muslims....people are easily deceived.
93
posted on
04/21/2018 5:19:43 PM PDT
by
ealgeone
To: nobamanomore
Internet Troll A person whose sole purpose in life is to seek out people to argue with on the internet over extremely trivial issues. Such arguments can happen on blogs, Im sick of the same three internet anti catholic trolls.Perhaps Free Republic's open forums aren't for you.
94
posted on
04/21/2018 5:20:44 PM PDT
by
ealgeone
To: ealgeone
To: NKP_Vet
No one today that calls themselves Christian is ignorant of the Catholic faith. Yet we rarely see the Roman Catholic identify as Christian.
In deed most Protestants make fun of Catholicism, belittle it and call it a false religion.
I don't make fun of Roman Catholics. I feel sorry for them as they have bought into a false doctrine.
Fallen away Catholics are of course the worse offenders. Ignore the One, True, Apostolic Faith at your own peril.
Roman Catholics ignore New Testament Christianity at their peril.
96
posted on
04/21/2018 5:24:57 PM PDT
by
ealgeone
To: Salvation
I am saved by my Baptism. I'll take the word of Jesus. Very rare for a Roman Catholic to assert they have salvation. Ya'll tell us that's the sin of presumption.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Context salvation...context. Perhaps the biggest error I see Roman Catholics make.
Read along a little further.
4Nicodemus said to Him, How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mothers womb and be born, can he? 5Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Do not be amazed that I said to you, You must be born again. 8The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.
9Nicodemus said to Him, How can these things be? 10Jesus answered and said to him, Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony. 12If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
14As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.[no mention of baptism]
16For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.[no mention of baptism]
17For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18He who believes in Him is not judged[no mention of baptism]; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God. John 3:4-21 NASB [emphasis mine]
Those are the words of Jesus to Nicodemus in this account.
97
posted on
04/21/2018 5:30:22 PM PDT
by
ealgeone
To: Gideon7
Thanks bro. I know some Gideons in Davao City. 👍
98
posted on
04/21/2018 5:30:36 PM PDT
by
Mark17
(Genesis chapter 1 verse 1. In the beginning GOD....And the rest, as they say, is HIS-story)
To: ADSUM
Many proclaim beliefin God, even the pharisees did, yet they do not follow all of the teachings of Jesus or only selectively. They support the teachings of man made churches and their heresies. You mean like Roman Catholicism and its allowance of the worship of Mary??
That wearing a piece of cloth will keep you out of the hell fire as the apparition so many Roman Catholic believe was Mary said to do?
The same apparition that said to build a church in its honor??
That the Mass can only be conducted in Latin??
That priests cannot marry??
You mean those man-made churches and heresies?
99
posted on
04/21/2018 5:32:39 PM PDT
by
ealgeone
To: Biggirl; Salvation
She threw it out there
You don't like it take it up with salvation.
For your lively discussion -- not argumentation.
1 posted on 4/21/2018, 12:30:28 PM by Salvation
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