Posted on 03/21/2018 8:45:09 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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“Jewish people” are not all that ancient. Judaism came into being in the second temple period, after the Macabee revolt, but they never identified as “Jewish” until the term was created in Europe centuries later.
Most genetic Hebrews are definitely not “Jews.”
My apology that the link did not work, so here is different one with better explanation than I can give at bottom.
There is difference between “Gift of Tongues’, which must have an ‘Interpretation of Tongues’, and is for the CHURCH BODY...AND the prayer language of tongues, which is private prayer of the Holy Spirit (See Ephesians CH 6), to use ‘when we do not know how to pray as we ought’...it is HS praying thru us a perfect prayer for a situation.
https://www.bible-knowledge.com/different-kinds-of-tongues/
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>> “I think that’s a bit of an assumption.” <<
No kidding!
Most “tongue speakers” are plain charletans, possibly hosting demons.
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As mentioned above, the tongues spoken on the Day of Pentecost were human. There are also angelic tongues. We need to always err on the side of giving the benefit of the doubt. The alternative is unthinkable.
Here is my personal story. I was raised in a hardline cessationist denomination. I bought that line lock, stock and barrel.
When I was a junior in high school my best friend received the gift of a tongue. She demonstrated it for me, and it didn’t sound much more sophisticated than your ticka ticka version.
I told her I wanted to meet the pastor who had persuaded her she had a tongue. I was a young firebrand, and loaded for bear.
We went to the assembly. There were between 30 and 40 people in attendance. The pastor gave a short message, then they ALL started babbling in tongues at the same time.
My friend had given the pastor a heads up. [I.e.: she’d told him I was a cessationist, and was going to set him straight.] He strolled up to me and said, “Do you have any questions for me?”
How can I describe what happened next? I ***literally*** felt the Holy Spirit close off my faculty for speech. It was a physical sensation, and I didn’t need anyone to tell me what had happened; I KNEW. The Holy Spirit Himself had simply removed my capacity to speak.
I had rehearsed my entire argument, but that was useless. I couldn’t talk. But the pastor was looking at me, waiting patiently.
Finally I uttered a single word: “No.” The Spirit enabled me to say it, but that was all.
I left the room quickly. It was dark outside and the building was located in a dangerous part of town. Nevertheless, I walked for many blocks. The experience had been terrifying yet also awe-inspiring. It took quite a while to process it.
The knowledge part I had picked up on instantly. Namely, that those tongues were real gifts of the Spirit, and I was not to speak a word against them.
What took longer was grasping the fact that the Holy Spirit had touched me directly. I could write 5,000 words, and still come nowhere close to imparting what that was like. The short, literal version is that it was like nothing on earth. Direct contact with the supernatural/Divine is simply stunning. It changes you forever in an instant. To this day I remember both the fear and something else—something uplifting. The Holy Spirit didn’t shut off my speech to harm or punish me, but to save me. He, in that instant, prevented me from speaking a word against Him.
I know it doesn’t translate. There’s simply no way to convey in words an experience like that. Really all I can say is this: nothing on earth could induce me to say a word against tongues. Nothing. God taught me a dramatic, transcendent lesson, and it’s the kind you only have to learn once. Please believe me when I assure you, nothing, NOTHING is worth the risk of deriding a spiritual gift. If you’re 99% convinced it’s fake and 1% in doubt, side with the doubt. You’ll be eternally glad you did.
Romans 8:26-27 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
This is one of the most commonly misused verses to support the nonsense that passes for praying in tongues.
Scripture does NOT mention it any other time than once when Paul mentions himself doing it.
There is no reference as to what it is and how it is the be done.
And those verse say that the Spirit intercedes with groans TOO DEEP FOR WORDS TO EXPRESS.
Presuming that the gift of tongues is an actual language, that verse actually precludes it.
If the groanings are too deep for words, and tongues is words, then the groaning of the Holy Spirit cannot be uttered even in a *tongue*.
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Lots of “post scriptural” lore sneaks in.
Wise to give it a wide berth when possible.
A common trait among cults is an attempt to deny the Jewish people’s identity and future.
PS: I have no gift of tongues and have never had one. But again, no power on earth could induce me to speak against them. The Spirit showed me infinite mercy once. With His help, there will be no second time.
FWIW, I am NOT a cessationist, and I am not in any hurry to accuse someone who is speaking in tongues that they are doing it by a demonic source.
However, much teaching about it is wrong and I have been in meetings where someone started speaking in tongues and I got a really bad feeling about it, as did someone else in the same meeting.
Mostly I reserve judgment on the personal level.
However, the guy that I worked with who said that anyone who spoke in tongues was demon possessed is the one who crossed that line.
BTW, I have also been filled with the Holy Spirit and did NOT speak in tongues either, so I can certainly understand the difficulty in explaining the experience.
And yet, I’ve run into this as well, that the charismatics do not and will not accept that I have been really filled with the Holy Spirit simply because tongues did not accompany it.
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You are confused!
Judaism’s “future” as declared by Yeshua is hellfire. Judaism is the totally man made ‘religion’ of the Pharisees. It is the following of their false law of commandments and ordinances that defied the covenant in Torah that Yeshua came to restore.
Did you mean Israel?
Israel is Yeshua’s Kehillah. This is the bride, from the time of Adam to the last Trump at the end of the trib. (often mistakenly called “the church.)
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I have no idea what that means?
There are scripture references in the link, and written in easy to understand english. Also original Biblical text reference included.
There is ‘no lore’ in the Baptism of Holy Spirit.
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You’ve nailed it, but don’t expect broad acceptance.
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The lore is the stretching of the giving of the Holy Spirit at Shavuot at Solomon’s Porch on the temple mount (the “upper room”) in the presence of thousands of on-lookers, to the giving of the Holy Spirit to individual believers subsequent thereto, up to the present.
Apples and Oranges for sure.
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Is your sect called “A Rood Awakening?”
Thank you for those replies. Just to be clear, this was *not* a case of being filled with the Spirit. It was much more like what happened to Zacharias in the temple. He entered with an unimpeded ability to speak, and exited mute. My muteness was shorter lived, and as I said, after a certain passage of time I did manage to say, ‘no’. [That being, imo, a gift/indulgence from God, rather than the sudden restoration of speech per se.]
However, what I recall most is the sensation of being touched inside. There was a physical feeling in my throat/vocal chord region. It was very sudden and powerful. As I think back over it now, one word keeps surfacing: indescribable. It was simply indescribable.
I would never, ever want to experience it again. I think of Isaiah, who cried out, ‘Woe is me.’ I can relate. It was an instant that literally bridged the divide between our finite existence and the Infinite. Very awe-inducing, and very thought provoking. The foremost thought in my mind then and now being that I never again want to come that close to speaking a word against the Spirit.
Metmom, idk where your name went, but post 77 was meant for you.
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YES!
And it’s a cult, not a sect.
Rood is not even a Christian but a guy playing dress up as a rabbi.
That interpretation is “Wrong”. Intercessors are called to a deeper prayer in the Spirit as explained by that reference to groaning and weeping, and is the HS praying through that individual to accomplish his purpose... Miracles have come from that type of prayer.
I referenced not Romans but Ephesians 6: “Praying in the Spirit is praying in tongues.” See below:
Ephesians 6:18 18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the LORD’s people.
I read a book in 1980s called “Nine O’clock in Morning’ by Episcopal? Priest: Dennis Bennett. It can still be bought, and his experience is priceless/biblical.
I will NOT argue about Scripture, as one can pray asking the HS to “teach them the deep things of God”- See below:
John 14:26 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
ALSO, Jesus said in Luke 11:11
11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? UNQUOTE
At the time Jesus was casting out spirit for man who could not speak...’ONE OF NINE GIFTS of the Spirit’
All Christians are equal in God’s eyes, whether they are filled with Holy Spirit w Speaking in tongues, and gifts of the Holy Spirit or NOT. All that is required is to believe in Jesus/be Baptized. We go to Heaven by Grace, not Works!
I’ve been an Intecessor/Prayer Warrior for 37 years (God got me young), and witnessed miracles unprecedented. There is nothing that could convince me the POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT doesn’t do, what scripture says HE will do! Charismatics in Catholic Church, Pentecostals in Protestant, Church of God, Assemblies of God, or whatever denomination have the same Holy Spirit and Gifts operating in their meetings.
Thanks for comment, prayers UP!
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