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To: Sontagged

I wasn’t asking what you ARE. I was asking what you believe, and in particular what you believe as to what beliefs that Jesus held with regard to the religious tradition in which He was raised.

(Though I think we tend to be/become, in our environment and experience, what we believe with conviction...and Jesus seems to have told us the same; that it will be done unto us as we believe it will.)


319 posted on 03/13/2018 6:36:21 PM PDT by Jamestown1630 ("A Republic, if you can keep it.")
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To: Jamestown1630

While there are metaphors in the Bible that some people take literally, and are in error for doing it, such as the issue of binding and loosing, and how the word “bind” happens to also be used by Christ in describing how we are to cast demons out “by binding the strongman in a house”... I think you should spell out what exactly you are thinking about in the Bible that you do not believe is a literal occurance.

As for binding and loosing and binding the strong man, these articles spell it out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_and_loosing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Strong_Man#cite_note-JRE-6

But then you have overzealous Pentecostals “binding Satan in the name of Jesus” instead of understanding that this was not a model of prayer that Jesus was discussing, but rather a metaphor for His kingdom and they miss the import of exactly how powerful the authority of Jesus is, the Name above all Names.

And then you have these same Pentecostals “binding Satan” and “loosing angels”...
it’s nuts because it is all about doctrine and only Peter and those whom walked with Jesus in the flesh could establish doctrinal matters. (Which is why when Peter and Paul quarreled, Peter relented and then established Paul’s words as the Word of God)...

And these same Pentecostals forget that Jesus told us that, instead of being arrested at Gethsamane, He could call down angels... but He didn’t call down angels to avenge His arrest.

And neither should we take the doctrinal issue of “loosing/binding” to mean we ourselves have the spiritual authority to tell angels what to do, and when to do it!

So if that’s what you mean about taking something literally or metaphorically, I think there is a problem there.

Then you have the Mormons, who wear their magic underwear because there is something in the Bible about wearing the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness or something. (Elsie can correct me.)

This is clearly a metaphor. We are to “put on” the garment of praise when we feel depressed or heavy, and it will lift our spirits.

But ask a Mormon and they will tell you that they cannot enter heaven without these garments. (There are a mess of other reasons why Mormons cannot enter Heaven, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with mistaking a metaphor about garments for something literal.)

I once asked a Mormon if their magic garments did anything at all to mitigate their sin nature, and they admitted the clothes did nothing. (I rested my case.)

Finally, we have our true example for prayer and “spiritual warfare” in the manner in which Satan tempts Christ during the forty days in the desert.

Satan’s showdown with Jesus shows us how we are to regard the Word. Literally, but with faith’s logical application, and Satan will go down for the count. We are never to put God to the test, such as playing with poisonous snakes as such Paul was bitten and didn’t die... because to play with snakes is to tempt or test God... and not an accident.

See, this is where faith comes in. If God knows how many hairs are on your head, then surely, He knows if you are in an accident and didn’t try to kill yourself or whatever. We are never to put him to the test, but rather, trust Him like little kids trust their daddy.

Jesus regarded Adam in the Garden, Moses with the snake, Jonah in the whale as literal events.

So should we.


320 posted on 03/14/2018 12:52:31 AM PDT by Sontagged (Lord Jesus, please frogmarch Your enemies behind You as You've promised in Your Word)
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To: Jamestown1630; metmom; Elsie

While there are metaphors in the Bible that some people take literally, and are in error for doing it, such as the issue of binding and loosing, and how the word “bind” happens to also be used by Christ in describing how we are to cast demons out “by binding the strongman in a house”... I think you should spell out what exactly you are thinking about in the Bible that you do not believe is a literal occurance?

As for binding and loosing and binding the strong man, these articles spell it out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_and_loosing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Strong_Man#cite_note-JRE-6

But then you have overzealous Pentecostals “binding Satan in the name of Jesus” instead of understanding that this was not a model of prayer that Jesus was discussing, but rather a metaphor for His kingdom and they miss the import of exactly how powerful the authority of Jesus is, the Name above all Names.

And then you have these same Pentecostals “binding Satan” and “loosing angels”...
it’s nuts because it is all about doctrine and only Peter and those who walked with Jesus in the flesh could establish doctrinal matters. (Which is why when Peter and Paul quarreled, Peter relented and then established Paul’s words as the Word of God)...

And these same Pentecostals forget that Jesus told us that, instead of being arrested at Gethsamane, He could call down angels... but He didn’t call down angels to avenge His arrest.

And neither should we take the doctrinal issue of “loosing/binding” to mean we ourselves have the spiritual authority to tell angels what to do, and when to do it!

So if that’s what you mean about taking something literally or metaphorically, I think there is a problem there.

Then you have the Mormons, who wear their magic underwear because there is something in the Bible about wearing the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness or something. (Elsie can correct me.)

This is clearly a metaphor. We are to “put on” the garment of praise when we feel depressed or heavy, and it will lift our spirits.

But ask a Mormon and they will tell you that they cannot enter heaven without these garments. (There are a mess of other reasons why Mormons cannot enter Heaven, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with mistaking a metaphor about garments for something literal.)

I once asked a Mormon if their magic garments did anything at all to mitigate their sin nature, and they admitted the clothes did nothing. (I rested my case.)

Finally, we have our true example for prayer and “spiritual warfare” in the manner in which Satan tempts Christ during the forty days in the desert.

Satan’s showdown with Jesus shows us how we are to regard the Word. Literally, but with faith’s logical application, and Satan will go down for the count. We are never to put God to the test, such as playing with poisonous snakes as such Paul was bitten and didn’t die... because to play with snakes is to tempt or test God... and not an accident.

See, this is where faith comes in. If God knows how many hairs are on your head, then surely, He knows if you are in an accident and didn’t try to kill yourself or whatever. We are never to put him to the test, but rather, trust Him like little kids trust their daddy.

Jesus regarded Adam in the Garden, Moses with the snake, Jonah in the whale as literal events.

So should we.


321 posted on 03/14/2018 1:07:10 AM PDT by Sontagged (Lord Jesus, please frogmarch Your enemies behind You as You've promised in Your Word)
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