Posted on 02/22/2018 8:49:54 AM PST by fatima
Statement from Bishop Thomas John Paprocki on Senate Failure to Pass Pain-Capable Unborn Children’s Act----- Edit------
Canon 915 of the Catholic Church’s Code of Canon Law states that those “who obstinately persist in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to Holy Communion.” In our 2004 Statement on Catholics in Political Life, the USCCB said, “Failing to protect the lives of innocent and defenseless members of the human race is to sin against justice. Those who formulate law therefore have an obligation in conscience to work toward correcting morally defective laws, lest they be guilty of cooperating in evil and in sinning against the common good.” Because his voting record in support of abortion over many years constitutes “obstinate persistence in manifest grave sin,” the determination continues that Sen. Durbin is not to be admitted to Holy Communion until he repents of this sin. This provision is intended not to punish, but to bring about a change of heart. Sen. Durbin was once pro-life. I sincerely pray that he will repent and return to being pro-life.
You are exactly right. Even those in mortal sin are obliged to attend Mass. So few know that. And this is an avenue to encounter the Lord and His Gospel, leading to repentance: but so few care.
While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, “Take and eat; this is my body.” (Matt. 26:26)
All the denials of the plain meaning of these words come not from the Bible but from false reasoning of men. So much for their claims of "sola Scriptura."
Good to know Catholics subscribe to the "plain meaning" of one verse somewhere. Of course, they still regard the Hebrew Bible as primitive mythology, so it's still rank hypocrisy.
It's too bad you don't subscribe to the same verse.
Kinda like the church fathers were young earth creationists, only since that makes them sound like "rednecks" Catholics just say "they were men of their time" or "we know better now."
The Orthodox monk Fr. Seraphim Rose (for whom I used to have some respect) announced when he started his book Genesis, Creation, and Early Man that he wasn't going to get into the age of the universe because he didn't the fathers were into YEC. Then when he did his research and found just how many fathers were YEC's he was completely dumbfounded. But he still decided he wasn't going to deal with the issue.
I lost my respect for him when I read that.
It is not me you disagree with, but Christ.
15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over.
16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.
17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
Good to know Catholics subscribe to the "plain meaning" of one verse somewhere.
It's too bad you don't subscribe to the same verse.
You always say this. But unfortunately for you, rejecting a verse not recognized as Scripture is nothing like as loony as calling it Scripture and then insisting it's all mythology (like the loony liturgical churches do).
??? I've never said "this" before.
Actually, what Mrs. Don-o isn’t agreeing with is your interpretation of what Christ was saying, not Christ Himself. But this point has been made ad nauseam on threads such as this so I’ll leave it at that.
Suffice to say, it seems unreasonable, at least to me, that anyone could believe that, when Christ said “treat them as you would a pagan or tax collector” He was saying “ban them forever from any worship gathering, and never speak to them again unless they repent”.
The very point of the Gospel was to REACH “pagans and tax collectors”. So unless one wishes to believe that after Christ ascended to Heaven, pagans and tax collectors were never talked to again, the verse you quote must have a deeper meaning than the interpretation you seem to assign to it.
What the Catholic Church believes is, that what Christ was commanding there was that such people should be “anathematized”, or as we say today “ex-communicated”. What this means for such hapless people is that they be banned from receiving the Sacraments (which now Sen. Durbin finds himself under, save Confession), but not that they are prohibited from hearing the Gospel again, either in or outside the Church.
Indeed, as even a casual study of Christian history will reveal, up to very recently (perhaps even up to Vatican II, but I’ll leave ebb tide to comment further on that if he wishes), anyone who was a candidate or catechumen (possible convert to Catholicism but hadn’t been received into the Church yet either by Baptism or Confirmation), such people were not permitted to stay for the entire Mass after the Liturgy of the Word (the part where we read the Bible during Mass). This was because again, such people weren’t allowed to receive any Sacraments until they were formally admitted.
The same applies (or in theory should) to anyone who has been ex-communicated. They are welcome to come hear the Word, but aren’t allowed to receive the Sacraments until they repent. And they will have a hard time repenting if they don’t have access to the Word, and a great place to hear the Word is in Mass. Thus they aren’t prohibited from attending Mass just from receiving the Sacraments (until they repent).
This is the understanding the Church brings to the passage you cite. This is how such people are treated as “pagans and tax collectors”. If you disagree with that interpretation, which is really more than personal opinion it’s based on tradition, if you disagree fine, but it’s your personal opinion that says “you disagree with Christ”, if you disagree with this practice. Unless you can show me in Scripture what it means to “treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector”.
No, you'd have to read Paul to understand how church discipline is carried out against members who are unrepentant - with the intent that the discipline results in repentance.
The very point of the Gospel was to REACH “pagans and tax collectors”. So unless one wishes to believe that after Christ ascended to Heaven, pagans and tax collectors were never talked to again, the verse you quote must have a deeper meaning than the interpretation you seem to assign to it.
You are conflating two different things. One, a group that desperately needed salvation and the second group of those inside the church.
What this means for such hapless people is that they be banned from receiving the Sacraments
Not what it says.
The same applies (or in theory should) to anyone who has been ex-communicated. They are welcome to come hear the Word, but aren’t allowed to receive the Sacraments until they repent. And they will have a hard time repenting if they don’t have access to the Word, and a great place to hear the Word is in Mass. Thus they aren’t prohibited from attending Mass just from receiving the Sacraments (until they repent).
Again, not what is commanded. Discipline is to bring them to repentance because they are no longer part of the fellowship.
Unless you can show me in Scripture what it means to “treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector”.
Again, you will have to read Paul and he will provide your education for free.
You always say this.
??? I've never said "this" before.
Every time I condemn the Catholic Church's evolutionism and historical-critical ideology you ignore that fact and respond by saying that I don't accept the "new testament" which is somehow worse.
What you consistently ignore is that unlike me, the Catholic Church considers Genesis Scripture and then denies it. Why not just remove it from your bibles? You clearly have no attachment to it. Then I would no longer be able to accuse you of disbelieving "your own bible."
I continue to note that despite your sometimes claim to being a creationist you are, so far as I know, totally missing in action when your co-religionists post articles advancing "theistic evolution" and historical criticism. Let me know if you ever do.
" If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector."Aren't these just the people --- pagans and tax collectors --- that Jesus associated with, the centurion, the Syro-Phoenician woman, the Samaritan leper, the tax-collector Matthew? Much to the consternation of the Pharisees, He does not turn these tainted people away from the Gospel. Hear that: He does not turn them away from the Gospel. He calls them to faith.
"Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
Thank you. "Truer words was never spoke."
You are conflating pagans who much be reached with the gospel, with believers who are members of the assembly. Bad argument.
What does Genesis have to do with this thread?
Knock that chip off your shoulder.
Great! I’m always looking for an opportunity to understand His Word better. Got any passages in mind you can point me to?
I'm not your puppet, but you're not my only stalker.
I Corinthians
II Corinthians.
I love non-Catholics weighing in and I always leave my posts open in the Religion Thread.Raise your hand if your in favor of abortion after 20 weeks.I see no hands.What happened is he can not claim to be a Catholic in good standing in the Catholic Church and can-not use it as a voting tool.
That manifestly cannot mean "banned from hearing the Gospel," since that is not how Jesus treated pagans and tax-collectors.
“That manifestly cannot mean “banned from hearing the Gospel,” since that is not how Jesus treated pagans and tax-collectors.
If the disciplined individuals are believers, they do not need the Gospel. They have it. They need repentance.
They are removed from the assembly so that their sin doesn’t corrupt others. Hopefully, they will repent, but there is no guarantee.
Nonsense. We all need the Gospel. You do read the Gospel at your church, don't you?
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