Posted on 12/19/2017 9:55:18 AM PST by GoldenState_Rose
On December 1, Vladimir Putin addressed the Bishops’ Council of the Russian Orthodox Church in Moscow. His remarks on the Orthodox Church’s historical and contemporary value to Russian society illustrate his utilitarian view of the church as a conduit of the Kremlin tasked with maintaining “stability and unity.” Putin’s view is at odds with that of Patriarch Kirill, who criticized the state’s influence on the church in remarks delivered later that day. The differences in opinion between President Putin and Patriarch Kirill shed light on broader cleavages in Russian society over the future relationship between church and state, which the Kremlin fails to fully comprehend.
Putin chronicled the Orthodox Church’s place throughout Russian history, recalling specifically its role during World War II, when Stalin granted the church certain freedoms to support the war effort.
After the war, the church no longer spoke out against the Communist Party, and many priests collaborated with the security services. The Soviet authorities saw the church as a propaganda instrument, but considered its propaganda to be “bad.” Consequently, the state had to monitor church activities and occasionally use them for its own benefit in order to prevent civil unrest.
Vladimir Putin takes a similar utilitarian view of the church, but for him the church is part of the “good” propaganda machine.
However, the tone and message of Patriarch Kirill’s speech at the Bishops’ Council differed from President Putin’s. The patriarch criticized the state’s influence on the church throughout history. He recalled the memo that Prime Minister Sergei Witte submitted to Czar Nicholas II in 1904, which attributed the church’s loss of influence to state interference and, as a result, a lack of dialogue between church and society.
Relations between the two leaders have become tense since the Ukraine crisis...
(Excerpt) Read more at carnegie.ru ...
Speech by His Holiness Patriarch Kirill at the meeting of the President of Russia...Dec 1st, 2017
https://mospat.ru/en/2017/12/01/news153711/
President Putin’s speech at Bishop’s Council...Dec 1st, 2017:
https://mospat.ru/en/2017/12/01/news153708/
Yet Patriarch Kirill continues to serve Christ and regularly express and enforce his view that the Church should not be subservient to the government, unmolested by Putin.
Interestingly this sounds like typical American MSM Fake News anoymously sourced leaks that Some SPECULATE that Trump would like to replace Sessions ...
And surprise, surprise, The Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching (CFAT) is a U.S.-based education policy and research center. It was founded by Andrew Carnegie in 1905 and chartered in 1906 by an act of the United States Congress.
Carnegie is one of those multinational NGO's that are actually Progressive anti Christian:
Carnegie Corporation of New York is America’s oldest grant making foundation
Dearest Navy Patriot,
I agree that there are not any good conservative (in the American sense) minded think tanks and journalists operating within Russia and giving a holistic picture to American readers.
I have to swallow my pride sometimes when acknowledging that liberal writers can make some very valid points about the situation in Russia while being utterly clueless or biased about the situation here at home. (Like the journalists who compare Putin’s authoritarian grip on the press to Trump’s own grievances with our media. They are apples and oranges. Trump is pro-freedom and Putin is not. Fake News CNN propagates lies against our president, while the Kremlin feeds the Russian media machine their lies. Putin would NEVER have a personal Twitter account. And Russian elitists people who make fun of Trump’s are just jealous because transparency of any kind is so wholly non-existent there. )
I am also fed up with how even independent Russian media is clueless about how to present American political realities to the Russian people. Most average people navigate their way around info on the web by themselves though, especially if they know English. Some have ended up on FR!
With regard to the “speculation over Kirill statement” - speculation or not, it doesnt change the fact the two gave divergent speeches and that the Ukraine crisis has been difficult for Orthodox faithful in both countries to navigate around.
Great! Thank you for linking!
Top Israeli Intel Boss EXPOSES Western Russophobia - History Repeats Itself
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xJKj4Dx7P50
No problem. Thanks for the interesting article. Left me wanting to read the speeches, and thought others might like to do the same.
That was my reaction as well. Anytime I read or hear "Some say", or "Some worry" or "Some anything", I take what follows as opinion disguised as reportage, and unreliable.
I linked the two speeches referenced, and readers can decide for themselves.
I didn't find the speeches all that divergent. The president naturally speaks to national issues, the Patriarch to ecclesiastical issues. They both acknowledged a complicated past; they expressed mutual respect, and a desire for synergy. Or maybe I'm just dumb and can't read.
“” “That was my reaction as well. Anytime I read or hear “Some say”, or “Some worry” or “Some anything”, I take what follows as opinion disguised as reportage, and unreliable.”” “
One word: propaganda.
It could be that. I just habitually tune out when I read or hear it anywhere. It gets discounted to 0.
But the newsworthy bit — that there was a meeting and speeches — led me to find them and read them, so all was not lost.
Virtually impossible to get reliable information about Russia. I don’t think Patriarch Kirill is a baby. I assume he can discern and judge rightly.
Putin is sooo adeft at doublespeak especially when talking about World War II.
For example?
Horse Manure, those Urinalists apply their exact same ethical and moral standards to both. In fact they brazenly promote the Disinformation that President Trump is an "asset" and a "pawn" of Putin.
There are NO honest "good intentions" from an of this traitorous filth on either President.
They are apples and oranges.
Again, Horse Manure, they are obviously the exact same Divisive Propaganda Narrative.
Fake News CNN (and most all American MSM) propagates lies against our president, while the Kremlin feeds the Russian media machine their lies.
Your source was Carnegie not the Kremlin, and I accuse Carnegie, and do not defend the Kremlin.
Putin would NEVER have a personal Twitter account. And Russian elitists people who make fun of Trump’s are just jealous because transparency of any kind is so wholly non-existent there.
So what, and So what? They are not The MSM Liars, and not your source.
I am also fed up with how even independent Russian media is clueless about how to present American political realities to the Russian people.
Sounds like a personal problem, considering the the very wide spectrum of views in the Russian media. Why don't you offer to edit one of the two Pravdas?
With regard to the “speculation over Kirill statement” - speculation or not, it doesnt change the fact the two gave divergent speeches and that the Ukraine crisis has been difficult for Orthodox faithful in both countries to navigate around.
Nor does it change the fact that Patriarch Kriill continues to serve unmolested, which is the point when there are differing views among leaders.
Thanks, Viking, very interesting.
I will write later when I am at a computer. But the doublespeak also applies to the Kremlin’s rhetorical gymnastics and handling of the 1917 Revolution centennial...which Putin makes brief mention of in the speech. Its been a difficult elephant in the room to navigate around for sure.
I don't think you're the dumb one here ...
Я не думаю, что ты тупой здесь
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